5 ms·

Paper suggesting vitamin D might protect against COVID-19 earns an expression of concern https://retractionwatch.com/2020/10/26/paper-suggesting-vitamin-d-migh

Paper suggesting vitamin D might protect against COVID-19 earns an expression of concern https://retractionwatch.com/2020/10/26/paper-suggesting-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-covid-19-earns-an-expression-of-concern https://retractionwatch.com/2020/10/26/paper-suggesting-vita... This isn't a home run yet, even though I would like to believe that Vitamin D has protective nature.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
Redressing nutritional deficiencies to protect against disease doesn't work like taking antibiotics. It takes time for the body to incorporate the missing nutrient into underperforming systems and get them back up to speed and you typically need other nutrients along with the one you are obviously deficient in to make proper use of it. Generally speaking, I wouldn't expect much in the way of good results to give massive doses of vitamin D to people so sick they have been hospitalized with Covid-19. But I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that a good recommendation is "If you are vitamin D deficient and would like to actually survive the pandemic, raising your vitamin D status is the smart thing to do." I mean, you should do that anyway, even if there were no pandemic. It's just a hair more urgently life threatening at the moment. It's sound advice generally to say "If you are vitamin D deficient, you should seek to remedy that." It's sound advice with or without a global pandemic happening around you.
- joshgel 6y ago
  Not sure that this is true. It might be. But more likely being active enough such that you get the 15 minutes of sunlight daily needed to maintain normal vitamin D levels is better advice.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    We are in complete agreement there. You are inferring that I am recommending supplements as the means to redress this. I am not and have suggested otherwise elsewhere and, wow, has it gotten ridiculous levels of push back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24913072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24913072
- RebelStarbridge 6y ago
  You might find this study interesting then: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096007602030296X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096007602...
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Thank you for that, though it doesn't fundamentally change my point of view. Please keep in mind that my point of view is probably not adequately expressed in a single internet comment. It boils down to: for best results, we should be generally trying to address vitamin D deficiency as a means to try to halt the pandemic and not waiting for people to end up hospitalized with Covid-19 before checking their status and trying to do something about it. I'm not saying it's "useless" to give supplements at that point. I'm just saying I would expect vastly better results if you have more lead up time to redress the issue rather than waiting until you are deathly ill from the current pandemic before you think taking action makes sense.
    - mixmastamyk 6y ago
      Don’t wait until the last minute, in other words.
      - DoreenMichele 6y ago
        "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
- edmundsauto 6y ago
  Can you elaborate on your knowledge in the first graph? I thought I remember reading that scurvy patients recover pretty quickly, and according the the NHS[0], it's about 48 hours to start feeling better and 2 weeks to recovery. Maybe scurvy is different, or perhaps we are assigning different timelines to the "it takes to to incorporate the missing nutrient", but that does seem to be in opposition with your statement. (Please note - this is not a "show your sources" challenge, I'm genuinely trying to understand the recovery process from malnutrition better. My guess would have been that the malnutrition is quickly remedied, but the 2nd order damage might take longer. Is that what you meant, and I just misunderstood?
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Can you elaborate on your knowledge in the first graph? I thought I remember reading that scurvy patients recover pretty quickly, and according the the NHS[0], it's about 48 hours to start feeling better and 2 weeks to recovery. Scurvy is vitamin C deficiency. Vitamin C is water soluble. Vitamin D is fat soluble. Fat soluble vitamins generally work on a longer, slower time scale. It takes longer to incorporate them into the body and longer to become deficient. People who are deficient in vitamin C may simply not be getting enough of it in their diet. Because vitamin D can actually be manufactured in the body, it tends to correlate to other underlying issues. People with other underlying issues tend to require more time to recover from anything, medically speaking. They may even have inherent challenges in absorbing vitamin D properly or using it properly. I have a genetic disorder that predisposes me to deficiency in all fat soluble vitamins, including vitamin D. I'm sure my firsthand experience with being slow to heal and my body being slow to adequately resolve nutritional deficiencies (on the order of months of supplementation to fix things) is on the fairly extreme side, but most Covid-19 patients in danger of dying from it are elderly and have underlying health issues. So I would expect my experiences to be somewhat similar to their situation. Does that make sense? Did I answer the question?
    - edmundsauto 6y ago
      So the fat solubility moderates the rate at which we can store/release from stores, is that the essence of it? I'm out over my skiis on biochem. Or is it that fat soluble nature moderates how quickly we can release the molecule, which is why we can store too much and suffer harm?

DoreenMichele 6y ago

Redressing nutritional deficiencies to protect against disease doesn't work like taking antibiotics. It takes time for the body to incorporate the missing nutrient into underperforming systems and get them back up to speed and you typically need other nutrients along with the one you are obviously deficient in to make proper use of it. Generally speaking, I wouldn't expect much in the way of good results to give massive doses of vitamin D to people so sick they have been hospitalized with Covid-19. But I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that a good recommendation is "If you are vitamin D deficient and would like to actually survive the pandemic, raising your vitamin D status is the smart thing to do." I mean, you should do that anyway, even if there were no pandemic. It's just a hair more urgently life threatening at the moment. It's sound advice generally to say "If you are vitamin D deficient, you should seek to remedy that." It's sound advice with or without a global pandemic happening around you.

joshgel 6y ago
Not sure that this is true. It might be. But more likely being active enough such that you get the 15 minutes of sunlight daily needed to maintain normal vitamin D levels is better advice.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  We are in complete agreement there. You are inferring that I am recommending supplements as the means to redress this. I am not and have suggested otherwise elsewhere and, wow, has it gotten ridiculous levels of push back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24913072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24913072
RebelStarbridge 6y ago
You might find this study interesting then: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096007602030296X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096007602...
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Thank you for that, though it doesn't fundamentally change my point of view. Please keep in mind that my point of view is probably not adequately expressed in a single internet comment. It boils down to: for best results, we should be generally trying to address vitamin D deficiency as a means to try to halt the pandemic and not waiting for people to end up hospitalized with Covid-19 before checking their status and trying to do something about it. I'm not saying it's "useless" to give supplements at that point. I'm just saying I would expect vastly better results if you have more lead up time to redress the issue rather than waiting until you are deathly ill from the current pandemic before you think taking action makes sense.
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    Don’t wait until the last minute, in other words.
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
edmundsauto 6y ago
Can you elaborate on your knowledge in the first graph? I thought I remember reading that scurvy patients recover pretty quickly, and according the the NHS[0], it's about 48 hours to start feeling better and 2 weeks to recovery. Maybe scurvy is different, or perhaps we are assigning different timelines to the "it takes to to incorporate the missing nutrient", but that does seem to be in opposition with your statement. (Please note - this is not a "show your sources" challenge, I'm genuinely trying to understand the recovery process from malnutrition better. My guess would have been that the malnutrition is quickly remedied, but the 2nd order damage might take longer. Is that what you meant, and I just misunderstood?
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Can you elaborate on your knowledge in the first graph? I thought I remember reading that scurvy patients recover pretty quickly, and according the the NHS[0], it's about 48 hours to start feeling better and 2 weeks to recovery. Scurvy is vitamin C deficiency. Vitamin C is water soluble. Vitamin D is fat soluble. Fat soluble vitamins generally work on a longer, slower time scale. It takes longer to incorporate them into the body and longer to become deficient. People who are deficient in vitamin C may simply not be getting enough of it in their diet. Because vitamin D can actually be manufactured in the body, it tends to correlate to other underlying issues. People with other underlying issues tend to require more time to recover from anything, medically speaking. They may even have inherent challenges in absorbing vitamin D properly or using it properly. I have a genetic disorder that predisposes me to deficiency in all fat soluble vitamins, including vitamin D. I'm sure my firsthand experience with being slow to heal and my body being slow to adequately resolve nutritional deficiencies (on the order of months of supplementation to fix things) is on the fairly extreme side, but most Covid-19 patients in danger of dying from it are elderly and have underlying health issues. So I would expect my experiences to be somewhat similar to their situation. Does that make sense? Did I answer the question?
  - edmundsauto 6y ago
    So the fat solubility moderates the rate at which we can store/release from stores, is that the essence of it? I'm out over my skiis on biochem. Or is it that fat soluble nature moderates how quickly we can release the molecule, which is why we can store too much and suffer harm?