3 ms·

You could just not configure the network on a smart TV if you can’t find a dumb one.

GoToRO 6y ago
2 years ago with a Samsung tv: no network, no terms and conditions signed, no terms signed, the tv would always forget to use the same input it was using before restart (degraded functionality). I never tried to remove the network after I signed the terms, maybe it woul have still worked.
- zamadatix 6y ago
  I only connect my Samsung TVs for firmware updates, seems to work fine pulling the plug after.
salawat 6y ago
Actually, I recall articles which mention certain brands would look for nearby unsecured networks. All of that goes out the window if vendors start provisioning SIMs and use the cellular network. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't have some code for looking for undersecured networks capable of being exploited to derive credentials, though at least then you'd have grounds to sue under CFAA.
- sidpatil 6y ago
  Embedded SIMs won't be an insurmountable problem as long as the TV can work without network connectivity, but they'll be very inconvenient to deal with. A destructive approach would involve desoldering the chip or unplugging the antenna. A nondestructive approach would involve Faraday-caging the television: a mesh or aluminum foil taped around where the antenna resides.
  - myrandomcomment 6y ago
    The issue can be solved by not buying a TV with a SIM (hopefully still a choice).
- myrandomcomment 6y ago
  This is HN lore. Commented many times, but no one has the proof. I have an old Vizio and 2 Samsungs. Configured them wired to updated the firmware then blocked the port on the switch. I use an AppleTV for everything as I know what it is sharing.
- heroprotagonist 6y ago
  It doesn't even need that, really. Zigbee and similar long range wireless mesh networks are very realistic (and probably cheaper) for basic usage data. Bandwidth is much more limited so it probably won't send screenshots of what you're watching like has been reported with some TVs. Screenshots aren't really needed, though, when there's a host of other metadata and on-device processing available.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    As someone who runs a Zigbee network at home, this won’t work. The signal strength across my small apartment was marginal at best, there’s no way you could plop down zigbee devices at random and hope that they could find each other, especially between detached houses.
    - heroprotagonist 6y ago
      Sorry, I was confusing LoRa and Zigbee. LoRa claims 2-5 km range in urban areas or 15 km suburban, with even larger variability in rural areas depending on line of sight and landscape features. Zigbee claims I found vary from 10 to 100 meters. LoRa is pretty cheap, and there are a lot of gateways around to piggy back off if you don't want to set up your own. You can see a map of one network of gateways here: https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/ https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/ It also uses less power than Zigbee. The big downside, though, is that you get a lot less bandwidth with LoRa.
      - guillem_lefait 6y ago
        Vith Vizio data you get a log whenever user use its remote to (un)pause, go forward, or change channel. I'm not sure LoRa has enough bandwidth to send the usual data. However, it is still possible to send a lightly simpler data (not doing ACR on everything, but identify channels only) But would it worth it right now ? Until a large portion of buyers disable (now or in the next few years) the full data collection, it seems unlikely to me.
        6y ago

2 years ago with a Samsung tv: no network, no terms and conditions signed, no terms signed, the tv would always forget to use the same input it was using before restart (degraded functionality). I never tried to remove the network after I signed the terms, maybe it woul have still worked.

zamadatix 6y ago
I only connect my Samsung TVs for firmware updates, seems to work fine pulling the plug after.

salawat 6y ago

Actually, I recall articles which mention certain brands would look for nearby unsecured networks. All of that goes out the window if vendors start provisioning SIMs and use the cellular network. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't have some code for looking for undersecured networks capable of being exploited to derive credentials, though at least then you'd have grounds to sue under CFAA.

sidpatil 6y ago
Embedded SIMs won't be an insurmountable problem as long as the TV can work without network connectivity, but they'll be very inconvenient to deal with. A destructive approach would involve desoldering the chip or unplugging the antenna. A nondestructive approach would involve Faraday-caging the television: a mesh or aluminum foil taped around where the antenna resides.
- myrandomcomment 6y ago
  The issue can be solved by not buying a TV with a SIM (hopefully still a choice).
myrandomcomment 6y ago
This is HN lore. Commented many times, but no one has the proof. I have an old Vizio and 2 Samsungs. Configured them wired to updated the firmware then blocked the port on the switch. I use an AppleTV for everything as I know what it is sharing.
heroprotagonist 6y ago
It doesn't even need that, really. Zigbee and similar long range wireless mesh networks are very realistic (and probably cheaper) for basic usage data. Bandwidth is much more limited so it probably won't send screenshots of what you're watching like has been reported with some TVs. Screenshots aren't really needed, though, when there's a host of other metadata and on-device processing available.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  As someone who runs a Zigbee network at home, this won’t work. The signal strength across my small apartment was marginal at best, there’s no way you could plop down zigbee devices at random and hope that they could find each other, especially between detached houses.
  - heroprotagonist 6y ago
    Sorry, I was confusing LoRa and Zigbee. LoRa claims 2-5 km range in urban areas or 15 km suburban, with even larger variability in rural areas depending on line of sight and landscape features. Zigbee claims I found vary from 10 to 100 meters. LoRa is pretty cheap, and there are a lot of gateways around to piggy back off if you don't want to set up your own. You can see a map of one network of gateways here: https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/ https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/ It also uses less power than Zigbee. The big downside, though, is that you get a lot less bandwidth with LoRa.
    - guillem_lefait 6y ago
      Vith Vizio data you get a log whenever user use its remote to (un)pause, go forward, or change channel. I'm not sure LoRa has enough bandwidth to send the usual data. However, it is still possible to send a lightly simpler data (not doing ACR on everything, but identify channels only) But would it worth it right now ? Until a large portion of buyers disable (now or in the next few years) the full data collection, it seems unlikely to me.
      - 6y ago