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> > it really feels like a cost cutting measure they are trying really hard to spin as an eco-friendly one > This is cynical. The iPhone SE launched with earb

> > it really feels like a cost cutting measure they are trying really hard to spin as an eco-friendly one > This is cynical. The iPhone SE launched with earbuds and a plug. It no longer ships with them. The retail price hasn't changed. It can be good for the environment and a cost-cutting measure. Another commenter has noted that by making the box about half as thick, that doubles the number of units that can fit in a container. That's a huge saving for Apple. And yet the iPhone SE still retails at the same price despite now including less.

chrisseaton 6y ago
Maybe prices for materials or manufacturing or handling went up? Maybe they want to make some more profit this year for their workers and shareholders? Times are hard. Why is any of this your business? Either the price works for you or it doesn't. There's no moral component to this. You aren't entitled to low costs.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- saagarjha 6y ago
  > Why is any of this your business? Because I am the person paying for the thing?
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    But why do you care what their costs are? What will you do with that information? Either the product is worth it for what you need or it isn’t.
    - h4waii 6y ago
      You're telling him not to care about their costs, but Apple is straight up telling him to care about their savings, but don't pass it on to the consumer. Generally speaking, people care about saving more of their money, they care much less about how much money the company they are purchasing goods or services for is able to retain by providing less for the same (or more) price.
      - tshaddox 6y ago
        No, Apple is telling him to care about the reduction in material waste.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        Is the iPhone as useful as before? So it’s the same price as before.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        But now it's just the iPhone. It used to be the iPhone + earbuds and plug. It's objectively less product.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        kd913 6y ago
        Who buys an iphone because of the included $0.50 plug and earbuds? Those products are mostly just straight e-waste at this point. I don't see how people paying 1 grand from Apple are upset at not having $0.50 power brick. If it's a problem, you can get a USB A/USB C Amazon Basics dual bricks + braided lightning cable that will last forever and is objectively better quality.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        $19 on the Apple Store. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD810LL/A/apple-5w-usb-power-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD810LL/A/apple-5w-usb-po... Granted, if you're enough of a sucker to buy these accessories directly, it's not Apple's fault; it's yours.
        fiblye 6y ago
        It’s not as useful because without a charger I can only use it until the battery dies. It’s like selling a car without tires, saying it’s a big savings for the company while not changing the price.
    - bmarquez 6y ago
      > But why do you care what their costs are? What will you do with that information? Make a purchasing decision? There are value-conscious customers out there, many of which hang out on "deal hunting" sites even for luxury goods. Although the type of consumer willing to scrutinize the bill of materials in order to optimize the best specs per dollar is probably looking at Android.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      It will impact my assessment of product worthiness and feelings about the company in general. If you lived in a small town with only a single bakery in it, would it not matter to you whether the bakery is selling you bread for a bit over their production costs, or 2x, or 5x those costs? The word that's used to refer to mass market goods sold with large profit margins is "overpriced".
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        Prices aren't set by production costs though. They're set by the market.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        In a working competitive market, prices are expected to be asymptotically approaching production costs.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        But phones aren’t commodities. Different models do different things.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        With the web and cross-platform app development tools, they essentially are.
- deleted 6y ago
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llampx 6y ago
I find it a total branding win from Apple that people are even discussing this. To me it is a clear loss to the customer and to the environment. You only have to go on any Apple forum to see people getting their power bricks and cases shipped separately from their iPhones. Its beyond my pay grade to calculate the extra emissions from those power bricks being shipped separately, assuming not every new iPhone purchase is accompanied by a power brick purchase, but the profit margin for Apple went up for sure. This is the new normal. Sealed hardware to discourage battery replacement, no 3.5mm jack to discourage reuse of old headphones and to encourage sales of Airpods with their tiny 2 year batteries, and now, no power bricks to encourage sales of extra power bricks. All greenwashed and the idiot consumer buys it.

chrisseaton 6y ago

Maybe prices for materials or manufacturing or handling went up? Maybe they want to make some more profit this year for their workers and shareholders? Times are hard. Why is any of this your business? Either the price works for you or it doesn't. There's no moral component to this. You aren't entitled to low costs.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
saagarjha 6y ago
> Why is any of this your business? Because I am the person paying for the thing?
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  But why do you care what their costs are? What will you do with that information? Either the product is worth it for what you need or it isn’t.
  - h4waii 6y ago
    You're telling him not to care about their costs, but Apple is straight up telling him to care about their savings, but don't pass it on to the consumer. Generally speaking, people care about saving more of their money, they care much less about how much money the company they are purchasing goods or services for is able to retain by providing less for the same (or more) price.
    - tshaddox 6y ago
      No, Apple is telling him to care about the reduction in material waste.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      Is the iPhone as useful as before? So it’s the same price as before.
      - Apocryphon 6y ago
        But now it's just the iPhone. It used to be the iPhone + earbuds and plug. It's objectively less product.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        kd913 6y ago
        Who buys an iphone because of the included $0.50 plug and earbuds? Those products are mostly just straight e-waste at this point. I don't see how people paying 1 grand from Apple are upset at not having $0.50 power brick. If it's a problem, you can get a USB A/USB C Amazon Basics dual bricks + braided lightning cable that will last forever and is objectively better quality.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        $19 on the Apple Store. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD810LL/A/apple-5w-usb-power-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD810LL/A/apple-5w-usb-po... Granted, if you're enough of a sucker to buy these accessories directly, it's not Apple's fault; it's yours.
      - fiblye 6y ago
        It’s not as useful because without a charger I can only use it until the battery dies. It’s like selling a car without tires, saying it’s a big savings for the company while not changing the price.
  - bmarquez 6y ago
    > But why do you care what their costs are? What will you do with that information? Make a purchasing decision? There are value-conscious customers out there, many of which hang out on "deal hunting" sites even for luxury goods. Although the type of consumer willing to scrutinize the bill of materials in order to optimize the best specs per dollar is probably looking at Android.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    It will impact my assessment of product worthiness and feelings about the company in general. If you lived in a small town with only a single bakery in it, would it not matter to you whether the bakery is selling you bread for a bit over their production costs, or 2x, or 5x those costs? The word that's used to refer to mass market goods sold with large profit margins is "overpriced".
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      Prices aren't set by production costs though. They're set by the market.
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        In a working competitive market, prices are expected to be asymptotically approaching production costs.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        But phones aren’t commodities. Different models do different things.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        With the web and cross-platform app development tools, they essentially are.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

llampx 6y ago

I find it a total branding win from Apple that people are even discussing this. To me it is a clear loss to the customer and to the environment. You only have to go on any Apple forum to see people getting their power bricks and cases shipped separately from their iPhones. Its beyond my pay grade to calculate the extra emissions from those power bricks being shipped separately, assuming not every new iPhone purchase is accompanied by a power brick purchase, but the profit margin for Apple went up for sure. This is the new normal. Sealed hardware to discourage battery replacement, no 3.5mm jack to discourage reuse of old headphones and to encourage sales of Airpods with their tiny 2 year batteries, and now, no power bricks to encourage sales of extra power bricks. All greenwashed and the idiot consumer buys it.