4 ms·

For me it's an optimal experience: my device cost went down, I get to choose what I spend that money on (such as superior 3rd-party chargers with multiple ports

by Bud 6y ago

For me it's an optimal experience: my device cost went down, I get to choose what I spend that money on (such as superior 3rd-party chargers with multiple ports), and I get the satisfaction of knowing that Apple didn't waste planetary resources making inflexible single-port chargers and $5 wired earbuds that I will never, ever use. I do admit that it's not optimal for every single user, but I do think it's a net improvement for most users.

paledot 6y ago
Or Apple's did. Do you really think they're passing the savings on to the customer?
- notJim 6y ago
  Honestly, who cares? If you're spending $1200 or whatever on a phone, is your life really that much better if you spend $1190 instead?
- shuckles 6y ago
  Luca their CFO has consistently said on investor calls that they aim for 35% gross margins, so any excess seems indeed reinvested into other features on the BOM or passed on to the customer.
oarsinsync 6y ago
> my device cost went down This seems to be a common narrative, that the savings have been passed onto the consumer. Is it really true? It's difficult to be sure, as there's no iPhone 12 that comes with the plug + earbuds bundled. However, there is one data point that most people don't bother to consider. The iPhone SE (2020) base model launched at $399 in April. It still retails for $399 today. In April, the iPhone SE shipped with headphones and a plug.[0] It doesn't anymore today.[1] In the case of the iPhone SE, the price absolutely did not go down. All that happened was that Apple increased their profit margins. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20200427193132/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://web.archive.org/web/20200427193132/https://www.apple... [1] As part of our efforts to reach our environmental goals, iPhone SE does not include a power adapter or EarPods. Included in the box is a USB‑C to Lightning cable that supports fast charging and is compatible with USB‑C power adapters and computer ports. https://web.archive.org/web/20201023201007/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://web.archive.org/web/20201023201007/https://www.apple...
- whynaut 6y ago
  I wasn't aware of the change to the SE 2020, but for 12s, storage is doubled across the line (or price dropped $100, depending how you look at it).
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  In a sufficiently complex product/company there is absolutely no way to work where costs went. Yes the SE without a doubt just become worse value but we have no way of knowing where the money went. Likely it didn't just vanish in to a wormhole but it instead will be invested in to R&D giving a better value for money product in the future. The only thing consumers need to think about is "Does this product provide enough value to me for its cost". For me personally a charging brick and earpods provides no value since I would just leave them in the box.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >In a sufficiently complex product/company there is absolutely no way to work where costs went. Yes the SE without a doubt just become worse value but we have no way of knowing where the money went. Likely it didn't just vanish in to a wormhole but it instead will be invested in to R&D giving a better value for money product in the future. I'm not sure whether this is satire or an sincere attempt at arguing that price hikes are good for consumers.
    - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
      I'm just saying it doesn't matter how the internal economics of the company work. Look at the end product and think "Is this providing enough value for its price". Trying to track a $3 cost savings through a complex supply chain is fruitless. If the savings really did just go to C level pockets then the product next year would be less compelling than the competitions so you would logically pick the other offerings.
- diebeforei485 6y ago
  I would argue that a USB-C cable is equal or higher value then a (USB-A cable plus USB-A brick). Edit: Oh, they also removed the earpods. Yeah, for the 2020 SE this is a clear move to increase margins. To be fair, it was already lower margin and is still a great value phone.
ProAm 6y ago
> For me it's an optimal experience You are a one off use case. The standard deviation for your experience is pretty large. Especially for first time iPhone buyers.
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  I just switched to an iphone recently and the brick would have been a non issue for me. I already have a bunch of USB C bricks from my android phones going back to the Nexus 5X
  - josephg 6y ago
    Exactly. I don't understand why nobody mentions this, but the decision to ship a USB-C to lightning cable makes a lot of sense when you think about customer segments: - People who are upgrading an old iphone will still have a USB-A to lightning cable from their old phone, so they can charge their new iphone using their old charger and old cable - People upgrading from android probably already have a USB-C charger, so they can use the bundled USB-C to lighting cable to charge their new iphone - People who want to buy a new USB-C charger can do so without also needing to buy a lightning cable to go with it. (The charger can also be used for charging an ipad or magsafe puck, so it makes sense not to include a cable with the charger.) In short, by including the USB-C to lightning cable, almost everyone who buys an iphone 12 won't need any new accessories with their new phone. (Unless you want faster charging or wireless charging and don't have other USB-C bricks floating around.)
newbie578 6y ago
Gahaha, this has to be a joke. Man, Apple doesn't even need a marketing department when they got fans willing to die on a hill for them. I refuse to believe that you are so obtuse to think that your device cost went down. Apple keeps increasing the price each year regardless of circumstances, their cost went down, not yours. What we should congratulate them for is to be able to skimp out on users, sell them a story about eco-friendly awareness and make it out like a bandit.
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  The value for money you get with each device keeps going up. The update support lifetime keeps going up to the point where devices are getting 6+ years of updates while the SoC gets further ahead of the snapdragon range every year. I have both android tablets and an iPad from 2014 and the ipad still feels like a modern device with the latest OS version while the android tablets are stuck on a 2015 build of android and feel very slow.
  - newbie578 6y ago
    I won't dispute the state of Android tablets. You are right there, android tablets suck, iPad is a way better product, and it has a really good value for money ($350 ftw). Yes, the SoC gets improved each year, but so does their ability to manufacture, i.e. the manufacturing costs should go down, and they keep spending the same amount on R&D to innovate. Economies of scale also play its part.
    - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
      It seems like the price is fixed. Apple has done the research to know exactly what price they can sell the phone for. The only variable factor is how much stuff they put in the phone. When manufacturing costs go down they add in something that was previously cut due to cost.
  - josephg 6y ago
    I agree with this. I bought an iphone 12 this year because my iphone 6s+ is 5 years old at this point, and I wanted to spoil myself. My new phone feels basically identical to my old phone, and despite 5 years of innovation I think it was a waste of money. Most of the improvements in iphones in the last 5 years has been in software, and the 6s (for now) still gets all the updates anyway. There's some differences - low light photography is much better. My new phone is also physically smaller with the same screen size and much snappier. But its also missing a headphone jack, force touch and it can't be unlocked with a face mask. I think next time I'll keep my phone until it dies - which I'm hoping will be ~6-7 years. Given that sort of longevity, the price seems pretty reasonable.

by Bud 6y ago

paledot 6y ago

Or Apple's did. Do you really think they're passing the savings on to the customer?

notJim 6y ago
Honestly, who cares? If you're spending $1200 or whatever on a phone, is your life really that much better if you spend $1190 instead?
shuckles 6y ago
Luca their CFO has consistently said on investor calls that they aim for 35% gross margins, so any excess seems indeed reinvested into other features on the BOM or passed on to the customer.

oarsinsync 6y ago

> my device cost went down This seems to be a common narrative, that the savings have been passed onto the consumer. Is it really true? It's difficult to be sure, as there's no iPhone 12 that comes with the plug + earbuds bundled. However, there is one data point that most people don't bother to consider. The iPhone SE (2020) base model launched at $399 in April. It still retails for $399 today. In April, the iPhone SE shipped with headphones and a plug.[0] It doesn't anymore today.[1] In the case of the iPhone SE, the price absolutely did not go down. All that happened was that Apple increased their profit margins. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20200427193132/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://web.archive.org/web/20200427193132/https://www.apple... [1] As part of our efforts to reach our environmental goals, iPhone SE does not include a power adapter or EarPods. Included in the box is a USB‑C to Lightning cable that supports fast charging and is compatible with USB‑C power adapters and computer ports. https://web.archive.org/web/20201023201007/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://web.archive.org/web/20201023201007/https://www.apple...

whynaut 6y ago
I wasn't aware of the change to the SE 2020, but for 12s, storage is doubled across the line (or price dropped $100, depending how you look at it).
Polylactic_acid 6y ago
In a sufficiently complex product/company there is absolutely no way to work where costs went. Yes the SE without a doubt just become worse value but we have no way of knowing where the money went. Likely it didn't just vanish in to a wormhole but it instead will be invested in to R&D giving a better value for money product in the future. The only thing consumers need to think about is "Does this product provide enough value to me for its cost". For me personally a charging brick and earpods provides no value since I would just leave them in the box.
- gruez 6y ago
  >In a sufficiently complex product/company there is absolutely no way to work where costs went. Yes the SE without a doubt just become worse value but we have no way of knowing where the money went. Likely it didn't just vanish in to a wormhole but it instead will be invested in to R&D giving a better value for money product in the future. I'm not sure whether this is satire or an sincere attempt at arguing that price hikes are good for consumers.
  - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
    I'm just saying it doesn't matter how the internal economics of the company work. Look at the end product and think "Is this providing enough value for its price". Trying to track a $3 cost savings through a complex supply chain is fruitless. If the savings really did just go to C level pockets then the product next year would be less compelling than the competitions so you would logically pick the other offerings.
diebeforei485 6y ago
I would argue that a USB-C cable is equal or higher value then a (USB-A cable plus USB-A brick). Edit: Oh, they also removed the earpods. Yeah, for the 2020 SE this is a clear move to increase margins. To be fair, it was already lower margin and is still a great value phone.

ProAm 6y ago

> For me it's an optimal experience You are a one off use case. The standard deviation for your experience is pretty large. Especially for first time iPhone buyers.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
I just switched to an iphone recently and the brick would have been a non issue for me. I already have a bunch of USB C bricks from my android phones going back to the Nexus 5X
- josephg 6y ago
  Exactly. I don't understand why nobody mentions this, but the decision to ship a USB-C to lightning cable makes a lot of sense when you think about customer segments: - People who are upgrading an old iphone will still have a USB-A to lightning cable from their old phone, so they can charge their new iphone using their old charger and old cable - People upgrading from android probably already have a USB-C charger, so they can use the bundled USB-C to lighting cable to charge their new iphone - People who want to buy a new USB-C charger can do so without also needing to buy a lightning cable to go with it. (The charger can also be used for charging an ipad or magsafe puck, so it makes sense not to include a cable with the charger.) In short, by including the USB-C to lightning cable, almost everyone who buys an iphone 12 won't need any new accessories with their new phone. (Unless you want faster charging or wireless charging and don't have other USB-C bricks floating around.)

newbie578 6y ago

Gahaha, this has to be a joke. Man, Apple doesn't even need a marketing department when they got fans willing to die on a hill for them. I refuse to believe that you are so obtuse to think that your device cost went down. Apple keeps increasing the price each year regardless of circumstances, their cost went down, not yours. What we should congratulate them for is to be able to skimp out on users, sell them a story about eco-friendly awareness and make it out like a bandit.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
The value for money you get with each device keeps going up. The update support lifetime keeps going up to the point where devices are getting 6+ years of updates while the SoC gets further ahead of the snapdragon range every year. I have both android tablets and an iPad from 2014 and the ipad still feels like a modern device with the latest OS version while the android tablets are stuck on a 2015 build of android and feel very slow.
- newbie578 6y ago
  I won't dispute the state of Android tablets. You are right there, android tablets suck, iPad is a way better product, and it has a really good value for money ($350 ftw). Yes, the SoC gets improved each year, but so does their ability to manufacture, i.e. the manufacturing costs should go down, and they keep spending the same amount on R&D to innovate. Economies of scale also play its part.
  - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
    It seems like the price is fixed. Apple has done the research to know exactly what price they can sell the phone for. The only variable factor is how much stuff they put in the phone. When manufacturing costs go down they add in something that was previously cut due to cost.
- josephg 6y ago
  I agree with this. I bought an iphone 12 this year because my iphone 6s+ is 5 years old at this point, and I wanted to spoil myself. My new phone feels basically identical to my old phone, and despite 5 years of innovation I think it was a waste of money. Most of the improvements in iphones in the last 5 years has been in software, and the 6s (for now) still gets all the updates anyway. There's some differences - low light photography is much better. My new phone is also physically smaller with the same screen size and much snappier. But its also missing a headphone jack, force touch and it can't be unlocked with a face mask. I think next time I'll keep my phone until it dies - which I'm hoping will be ~6-7 years. Given that sort of longevity, the price seems pretty reasonable.