8 ms·
Why? All of those old USB-A chargers and USB-A/Lightning cables will still charge the new iPhones perfectly well. So will every iPad charger ever made, btw. A
by Bud 6y ago
Why? All of those old USB-A chargers and USB-A/Lightning cables will still charge the new iPhones perfectly well.
So will every iPad charger ever made, btw.
And every USB-C Mac charger ever made.
Honestly, it doesn't matter whether you or any particular observer wants to give credit for this reducing e-waste or being "eco-friendly". It's a plainly obvious fact that it will massively reduce e-waste and be a massive net positive on the eco-friendly front, in about 5 different ways. Those facts remain valid regardless of how one chooses to think about the ethical/moral/environmental cred or goodwill that Apple deserves for this move, or Apple's profit motives.
- 908B64B197 6y agoSure. But it's not the optimal experience.
- Bud 6y agoFor me it's an optimal experience: my device cost went down, I get to choose what I spend that money on (such as superior 3rd-party chargers with multiple ports), and I get the satisfaction of knowing that Apple didn't waste planetary resources making inflexible single-port chargers and $5 wired earbuds that I will never, ever use. I do admit that it's not optimal for every single user, but I do think it's a net improvement for most users.
- paledot 6y agoOr Apple's did. Do you really think they're passing the savings on to the customer?
- notJim 6y agoHonestly, who cares? If you're spending $1200 or whatever on a phone, is your life really that much better if you spend $1190 instead?
- shuckles 6y agoLuca their CFO has consistently said on investor calls that they aim for 35% gross margins, so any excess seems indeed reinvested into other features on the BOM or passed on to the customer.
- oarsinsync 6y ago> my device cost went down This seems to be a common narrative, that the savings have been passed onto the consumer. Is it really true? It's difficult to be sure, as there's no iPhone 12 that comes with the plug + earbuds bundled. However, there is one data point that most people don't bother to consider. The iPhone SE (2020) base model launched at $399 in April. It still retails for $399 today. In April, the iPhone SE shipped with headphones and a plug.[0] It doesn't anymore today.[1] In the case of the iPhone SE, the price absolutely did not go down. All that happened was that Apple increased their profit margins. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20200427193132/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://web.archive.org/web/20200427193132/https://www.apple... [1] As part of our efforts to reach our environmental goals, iPhone SE does not include a power adapter or EarPods. Included in the box is a USB‑C to Lightning cable that supports fast charging and is compatible with USB‑C power adapters and computer ports. https://web.archive.org/web/20201023201007/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://web.archive.org/web/20201023201007/https://www.apple...
- whynaut 6y agoI wasn't aware of the change to the SE 2020, but for 12s, storage is doubled across the line (or price dropped $100, depending how you look at it).
- Polylactic_acid 6y agoIn a sufficiently complex product/company there is absolutely no way to work where costs went. Yes the SE without a doubt just become worse value but we have no way of knowing where the money went. Likely it didn't just vanish in to a wormhole but it instead will be invested in to R&D giving a better value for money product in the future. The only thing consumers need to think about is "Does this product provide enough value to me for its cost". For me personally a charging brick and earpods provides no value since I would just leave them in the box.
- gruez 6y ago>In a sufficiently complex product/company there is absolutely no way to work where costs went. Yes the SE without a doubt just become worse value but we have no way of knowing where the money went. Likely it didn't just vanish in to a wormhole but it instead will be invested in to R&D giving a better value for money product in the future. I'm not sure whether this is satire or an sincere attempt at arguing that price hikes are good for consumers.
- ProAm 6y ago> For me it's an optimal experience You are a one off use case. The standard deviation for your experience is pretty large. Especially for first time iPhone buyers.
- Polylactic_acid 6y agoI just switched to an iphone recently and the brick would have been a non issue for me. I already have a bunch of USB C bricks from my android phones going back to the Nexus 5X
- josephg 6y agoExactly. I don't understand why nobody mentions this, but the decision to ship a USB-C to lightning cable makes a lot of sense when you think about customer segments: - People who are upgrading an old iphone will still have a USB-A to lightning cable from their old phone, so they can charge their new iphone using their old charger and old cable - People upgrading from android probably already have a USB-C charger, so they can use the bundled USB-C to lighting cable to charge their new iphone - People who want to buy a new USB-C charger can do so without also needing to buy a lightning cable to go with it. (The charger can also be used for charging an ipad or magsafe puck, so it makes sense not to include a cable with the charger.) In short, by including the USB-C to lightning cable, almost everyone who buys an iphone 12 won't need any new accessories with their new phone. (Unless you want faster charging or wireless charging and don't have other USB-C bricks floating around.)
- newbie578 6y agoGahaha, this has to be a joke. Man, Apple doesn't even need a marketing department when they got fans willing to die on a hill for them. I refuse to believe that you are so obtuse to think that your device cost went down. Apple keeps increasing the price each year regardless of circumstances, their cost went down, not yours. What we should congratulate them for is to be able to skimp out on users, sell them a story about eco-friendly awareness and make it out like a bandit.
- Polylactic_acid 6y agoThe value for money you get with each device keeps going up. The update support lifetime keeps going up to the point where devices are getting 6+ years of updates while the SoC gets further ahead of the snapdragon range every year. I have both android tablets and an iPad from 2014 and the ipad still feels like a modern device with the latest OS version while the android tablets are stuck on a 2015 build of android and feel very slow.
- newbie578 6y agoI won't dispute the state of Android tablets. You are right there, android tablets suck, iPad is a way better product, and it has a really good value for money ($350 ftw). Yes, the SoC gets improved each year, but so does their ability to manufacture, i.e. the manufacturing costs should go down, and they keep spending the same amount on R&D to innovate. Economies of scale also play its part.
- Polylactic_acid 6y agoIt seems like the price is fixed. Apple has done the research to know exactly what price they can sell the phone for. The only variable factor is how much stuff they put in the phone. When manufacturing costs go down they add in something that was previously cut due to cost.
- josephg 6y agoI agree with this. I bought an iphone 12 this year because my iphone 6s+ is 5 years old at this point, and I wanted to spoil myself. My new phone feels basically identical to my old phone, and despite 5 years of innovation I think it was a waste of money. Most of the improvements in iphones in the last 5 years has been in software, and the 6s (for now) still gets all the updates anyway. There's some differences - low light photography is much better. My new phone is also physically smaller with the same screen size and much snappier. But its also missing a headphone jack, force touch and it can't be unlocked with a face mask. I think next time I'll keep my phone until it dies - which I'm hoping will be ~6-7 years. Given that sort of longevity, the price seems pretty reasonable.
- ochoseis 6y agoApple’s move and their explanation honestly feels about as genuine as hotels asking you to be eco friendly by hanging the door-tag to skip room cleaning. The difference is that hotels at least give you the option.
- toast0 6y agoIsn't Apple giving you a new option here? Before, you were forced to buy the bundled wall wart, now you have the option to keep using what you had or buy a charger if you need it? They're still forcing a bundled cable, but it's a different cable you probably don't have many of?
- p1esk 6y agoBut, just like with hotels, you’re still paying the same price.
- tshaddox 6y agoSure, Apple also might tend to get more money per iPhone customer now, but that doesn't invalidate the environmental argument.
- kd913 6y agoThen don't get an iphone 12? People who are buying an iphone aren't doing it because of the included power brick. There is the iphone SE 2, Pixel 4a etc... If it's such a problem, buy a braided cable from Amazon and power brick. Cheaper cost, better quality and will last longer than any Apple charger.
- poglet 6y agoThe iPhone SE 2 no longer comes with the power brick.
- kd913 6y agoIf you have no power bricks at all then applause to you. In any given room I can find at least 5 I think. For 0.025% of the price of the phone or less, you can get a braided lightning cable and stop caring about this first world problem.
- criddell 6y ago> a massive net positive on the eco-friendly front Isn't wireless charging a big step backwards with respect to power efficiency? With the millions of phones they sell and the fact that every one of them is charged daily, are the losses due to Apples new charging scheme insignificant?
- selectodude 6y agoIf a MagSafe charger can charge at 15W using a 20W Apple charger, that's a 75 percent charge efficiency. The charger itself is about 80 percent efficient converting from the wall, so the whole thing is about 60 percent efficient. An iPhone 12 has a 15 wh battery, so you need about 25 wh to charge the battery fully vs 19 wh. So the losses for 17,000 full charges using MagSafe over a regular cable would equal the charge in a 100kwh Tesla Model S. ETA: the total charging loss from ten million iPhones charging 0-100 percent via MagSafe every day for a year would be 21,505 teslas.
- jiofih 6y agoYour numbers are a bit high, wired chargers have become more efficient and barely waste any energy, see here: (14wh spent to charge a 13wh battery) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309917872_Improving_wireless_charging_energy_efficiency_of_mobile_phones_Analysis_of_key_practices https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309917872_Improving... The last bit is also wrong, 6wh * 10M = 600 Teslas. You can also read as “600 Teslas can provide phone charging for ten million people for an entire year”, take it as you wish... Your fridge can easily use 100kWh a month. You’ll save far more energy by closing the door a couple seconds early every time you open it. Phone charging is a drop in the bucket.
- jiofih 6y agoWired chargers are 85%-90% efficient, Qi is somewhat between 75-85%. If you live in a country powered by green energy it shouldn’t be a concern :)
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago