3 ms·

I feel like you're kinda right. at least I expect that in the medium term, the average SWE salary will be what it is now (plus inflation), but the regional spre

I feel like you're kinda right. at least I expect that in the medium term, the average SWE salary will be what it is now (plus inflation), but the regional spread will be much lower. in the long term (and regardless of WFH), I expect software engineers will become more like accountants: valued professionals, but not superstars pulling $200k+. I also don't think this is unreasonable. we're not entitled to live in the most expensive corners of the world just because we want to. currently engineers in high-COL areas get paid a premium because the company sees value in having offices there and having most people work in the office. once that perceived value-add no longer exists, what entitles you to get paid much more to enable your lifestyle than joe schmoe in iowa who does the same work? if this feels unfair, it sorta calls into question whether it's fair for SWEs to get paid so much more than other professions in the first place.

forpayandlabor 6y ago
I totally agree, and am trying to balance my desire to preserve my career and standard of living with what - logically - makes so much sense. I previously worked for an all-remote team that, over time, shifted from mostly within the US to HQ'd within the US on paper, but with just a few employees left in the country. When I left to take a local job, the guy who replaced me in Latin America was every bit as talented an engineer and tech leader, but for less than a third of the cost to the company compared to what I was making in NYC. I get the feeling a lot of people are looking at this as their first step towards more tech jobs in cheap parts of the US, but the reality will probably end up as more tech jobs offered to people from much cheaper parts of the developing world - also a great thing... but with potential impact to those of us in the country if wages move faster than COL does. My justification for finding my walkable community in one of the only places it exists in the US was always high wages, but if that changes, there's little reason to not pursue parts of western europe with a much better social climate and lower wages - but also lower wages. Who knows what will happen post-pandemic though, and how much of this will stick outside of a few SV companies.
kthejoker2 6y ago
Software engineers are more like creative staff (being a "creative" accountant is a negative!), one discovers value, the other transmutes it into cashflow, the incentive structure for both shouldn't be the same. See also https://iism.org/article/why-are-ceos-failing-software-engineers-56 https://iism.org/article/why-are-ceos-failing-software-engin...
- leetcrew 6y ago
  maybe accountant was a poor comparison. I chose it because (AFAIK) the barrier to entry for a career as an accountant is similar to that of a SWE. there aren't many fields these days where completing a four-year degree gives you a good chance at a steady job with good pay. SWE is definitely an outlier when it comes to pay vs credentials. when I got my cs bachelors and starting working, I instantly hit the 90th percentile income for a person my age. a CS major is relatively difficult, sure, but it's not that difficult. I have to assume that over time pay and opportunities for people with CS degrees (at least at entry level) will converge with pay for other similarly difficult STEM degrees.

forpayandlabor 6y ago

I totally agree, and am trying to balance my desire to preserve my career and standard of living with what - logically - makes so much sense. I previously worked for an all-remote team that, over time, shifted from mostly within the US to HQ'd within the US on paper, but with just a few employees left in the country. When I left to take a local job, the guy who replaced me in Latin America was every bit as talented an engineer and tech leader, but for less than a third of the cost to the company compared to what I was making in NYC. I get the feeling a lot of people are looking at this as their first step towards more tech jobs in cheap parts of the US, but the reality will probably end up as more tech jobs offered to people from much cheaper parts of the developing world - also a great thing... but with potential impact to those of us in the country if wages move faster than COL does. My justification for finding my walkable community in one of the only places it exists in the US was always high wages, but if that changes, there's little reason to not pursue parts of western europe with a much better social climate and lower wages - but also lower wages. Who knows what will happen post-pandemic though, and how much of this will stick outside of a few SV companies.

kthejoker2 6y ago

Software engineers are more like creative staff (being a "creative" accountant is a negative!), one discovers value, the other transmutes it into cashflow, the incentive structure for both shouldn't be the same. See also https://iism.org/article/why-are-ceos-failing-software-engineers-56 https://iism.org/article/why-are-ceos-failing-software-engin...

leetcrew 6y ago
maybe accountant was a poor comparison. I chose it because (AFAIK) the barrier to entry for a career as an accountant is similar to that of a SWE. there aren't many fields these days where completing a four-year degree gives you a good chance at a steady job with good pay. SWE is definitely an outlier when it comes to pay vs credentials. when I got my cs bachelors and starting working, I instantly hit the 90th percentile income for a person my age. a CS major is relatively difficult, sure, but it's not that difficult. I have to assume that over time pay and opportunities for people with CS degrees (at least at entry level) will converge with pay for other similarly difficult STEM degrees.