5 ms·

I think you can extend that kind of thinking to its logical conclusion, i.e. "what is the value of leisure time?", and then you arrive at a question that's been

by ketzo 6y ago

I think you can extend that kind of thinking to its logical conclusion, i.e. "what is the value of leisure time?", and then you arrive at a question that's been debated by philosophers... well, as long as philosophy has existed. I struggle with this question for myself, certainly. I know I could be working on some kind of revenue-generating side project, or volunteering my time on a political campaign I believe in, or working to feed the homeless, but instead I play video games. Is that.. okay? Is it "right" or "good"? I don't know that I have a perfect answer. I know this much: without some amount of leisure time, I'd go crazy, nor would I be much use in any of my "productive" capabilities; so clearly, there's an amount of leisure time that is a net good for me. I think the question becomes: what is that amount?

animal_spirits 6y ago
That is the whole idea of the sabbath. Humans are not supposed to be slaves to work. Work in the garden (or at the homeless shelter, etc.) six days and rest the seventh
- ggus 6y ago
  My life got significantly better when I managed to switch from working 5 days and resting 2 (37.5 hours/week), to working 4 days and resting 3 (30 hours/week).
  - ketzo 6y ago
    For me, a lot of that is the fact that my "rest days" are really days where I gotta do work I don't get paid for :D adult life, huh...
jandrese 6y ago
Pretty soon you should come to the realization that the real question is "What is the value of work?", and the answer is that it enables your leisure time. If you work so much that you have no leisure time then you have defeated yourself, your life is empty.
- elahieh 6y ago
  Your last sentence reminded me so much of Ecclesiastes 4:8 I concluded that it was probably a conscious, rather than an unconscious paraphrase ...
  - athriren 6y ago
    more of an Ecclesiastes 10:19 person myself.
- jlokier 6y ago
  > "What is the value of work?", and the answer is that it enables your leisure time. I think that is false. Enabling your leisure is not the sole value of work. The GP said: >> I know I could be [...] volunteering my time on a political campaign I believe in, or working to feed the homeless Those are work too. If you are a certain kind of person, you do those things and value them, and they don't enable your leisure time, indeed they reduce it. I don't think it's for fun either. Another commenter said: >>> the number one reason I spend my time there—by far—is because it was fun It was fun for them, but I know people who do volunteer work to help others who don't find it fun, but do it because they think it is right or essential to do anyway. I think most people do some kinds of work which is not for the sole purpose of enabling their leisure time, at some time in their lives. For example every key worker (nurse etc) who feels underpaid but remains in the job because they feel it is a good thing to do. Every unpaid carer of their parents. Every volunteer who delivers food to others during pandemic even when they have become fed up of doing so.
- MauranKilom 6y ago
  As illustrated by this story (retold in countless ways): https://www.becomingminimalist.com/recognizing-happiness/ https://www.becomingminimalist.com/recognizing-happiness/
contravariant 6y ago
If leisure time has no value then what's the point of all the rest?
runarberg 6y ago
I think the answer is way more straight forward then this... We play games because it’s fun. Having fun makes us happy. Being happy is a goal that is worthy in and of it self. A life which is optimized for happiness is a good life. If a game makes you happy, and it makes people around you happy, that game is worth playing for if only for that reason that it makes you happy. Its funny that you mentioned “feed the homeless” as an example here. When I lived in San Francisco I spent every Tuesday going to my neighborhood anarchist space to cook for Food Not Bombs and later served it on 16th and Mission. Why did I do that? Sure helping people is a noble goal, spreading anarchist propaganda through direct action is productive for a cause I believe in. But the number one reason I spend my time there—by far—is because it was fun.
cjohnson318 6y ago
I think the value of leisure time is a function of how much money you have, and how much free time you already have. If I don't have a lot of money, then it's worth my time to work overtime in a kitchen. If I have more money, I'm less likely to do so. Also people are more inclined to volunteer an hour here or there, but avoid a regular commitment. I think you could approximate this function of the value of leisure time if you had enough time and money to go around polling people. My hunch is that there would be some variation around work ethic and virtue signaling, but that there would be a clear relationship between net worth, free time, and the value of free time.
soufron 6y ago
It's actually quite the opposite. Spending time to do something else than please yourself is questionable. What are you working for? To improve society and the world? First you'll improve things for a limited range of human beings only - not counting other humans and the animal world. Second, it's only a drop in the infinity of time. Third, it most always has counter-effects meaning you always do as bad as good. Thus, you're better off playing games or reading. Being inactive and happy is by far the most rational thing to do.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

by ketzo 6y ago

animal_spirits 6y ago

That is the whole idea of the sabbath. Humans are not supposed to be slaves to work. Work in the garden (or at the homeless shelter, etc.) six days and rest the seventh

ggus 6y ago
My life got significantly better when I managed to switch from working 5 days and resting 2 (37.5 hours/week), to working 4 days and resting 3 (30 hours/week).
- ketzo 6y ago
  For me, a lot of that is the fact that my "rest days" are really days where I gotta do work I don't get paid for :D adult life, huh...

jandrese 6y ago

Pretty soon you should come to the realization that the real question is "What is the value of work?", and the answer is that it enables your leisure time. If you work so much that you have no leisure time then you have defeated yourself, your life is empty.

elahieh 6y ago
Your last sentence reminded me so much of Ecclesiastes 4:8 I concluded that it was probably a conscious, rather than an unconscious paraphrase ...
- athriren 6y ago
  more of an Ecclesiastes 10:19 person myself.
jlokier 6y ago
> "What is the value of work?", and the answer is that it enables your leisure time. I think that is false. Enabling your leisure is not the sole value of work. The GP said: >> I know I could be [...] volunteering my time on a political campaign I believe in, or working to feed the homeless Those are work too. If you are a certain kind of person, you do those things and value them, and they don't enable your leisure time, indeed they reduce it. I don't think it's for fun either. Another commenter said: >>> the number one reason I spend my time there—by far—is because it was fun It was fun for them, but I know people who do volunteer work to help others who don't find it fun, but do it because they think it is right or essential to do anyway. I think most people do some kinds of work which is not for the sole purpose of enabling their leisure time, at some time in their lives. For example every key worker (nurse etc) who feels underpaid but remains in the job because they feel it is a good thing to do. Every unpaid carer of their parents. Every volunteer who delivers food to others during pandemic even when they have become fed up of doing so.
MauranKilom 6y ago
As illustrated by this story (retold in countless ways): https://www.becomingminimalist.com/recognizing-happiness/ https://www.becomingminimalist.com/recognizing-happiness/

contravariant 6y ago

If leisure time has no value then what's the point of all the rest?

runarberg 6y ago

I think the answer is way more straight forward then this... We play games because it’s fun. Having fun makes us happy. Being happy is a goal that is worthy in and of it self. A life which is optimized for happiness is a good life. If a game makes you happy, and it makes people around you happy, that game is worth playing for if only for that reason that it makes you happy. Its funny that you mentioned “feed the homeless” as an example here. When I lived in San Francisco I spent every Tuesday going to my neighborhood anarchist space to cook for Food Not Bombs and later served it on 16th and Mission. Why did I do that? Sure helping people is a noble goal, spreading anarchist propaganda through direct action is productive for a cause I believe in. But the number one reason I spend my time there—by far—is because it was fun.

cjohnson318 6y ago

I think the value of leisure time is a function of how much money you have, and how much free time you already have. If I don't have a lot of money, then it's worth my time to work overtime in a kitchen. If I have more money, I'm less likely to do so. Also people are more inclined to volunteer an hour here or there, but avoid a regular commitment. I think you could approximate this function of the value of leisure time if you had enough time and money to go around polling people. My hunch is that there would be some variation around work ethic and virtue signaling, but that there would be a clear relationship between net worth, free time, and the value of free time.

soufron 6y ago

It's actually quite the opposite. Spending time to do something else than please yourself is questionable. What are you working for? To improve society and the world? First you'll improve things for a limited range of human beings only - not counting other humans and the animal world. Second, it's only a drop in the infinity of time. Third, it most always has counter-effects meaning you always do as bad as good. Thus, you're better off playing games or reading. Being inactive and happy is by far the most rational thing to do.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]