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People talk a lot about the UK's strict defamation laws, but the German concept of "Beleidigung" goes much much further. It's against the law to give someone th
by TillE 6y ago
People talk a lot about the UK's strict defamation laws, but the German concept of "Beleidigung" goes much much further. It's against the law to give someone the middle finger, for example.
- varispeed 6y agoIt seems like the concept of psychological injury is treated as a second class event where often it can leave scars for years or even lifetime.
- dschuler 6y agoCould you expand on what you mean by that? I assume you don't mean someone giving someone else the middle finger.
- varispeed 6y agoThis is an extreme, but for example telling someone mean things can have a lasting impact.
- dschuler 6y agoCertainly, that’s true. There are many ways to hurt others with words, even avoiding definitions that would be against the law in Germany. This is a bit personal, but my brothers and I grew up in Germany with a father who was verbally and emotionally abusive. However, he didn’t break any laws regarding offensive speech at least. Ironically legislating against offensive speech protects people from superficial harm of “offense”, causes a chilling effect by curtailing “offensive” speech (what can you say about a corrupt cop in Germany or France without breaking the law?), and does little to prevent actually emotionally abusive speech. Obviously my views are biased by my own experience, but I think the US is two _centuries_ ahead of the curve here while Europe still struggles with the ghosts of former monarchs.
- berkes 6y agoCurrent monarchs even. In the Netherlands just a few years ago, people were jailed for spray painting and shouting 'Fuck de Koning'.
- speleding 6y agoNo that case was dropped [0]. The logic of that law is that you shouldn't be allowed to insult someone who does not have free speech himself, and so cannot defend himself. But it's pretty much a dead letter. [0] https://nos.nl/artikel/2038180-fuck-de-koning-roeper-niet-langer-vervolgd.html https://nos.nl/artikel/2038180-fuck-de-koning-roeper-niet-la...
- berkes 6y agoThe case was dropped, but only after he was arrested and put in a cell; I don't know the intricacies of this, a cell probably is not a jail. But "behind bars" is what I meant.
- leetcrew 6y agoI dunno if it's a "second class event"; I'd say it's just tricky to adjudicate. there are a lot of ways to seriously hurt someone's feelings that should not be illegal.
- ce4 6y agoThat has to do with order. Insulting people is not considered orderly, hence the possible penalties. You can however insult people using the language twisted the right way and not pose yourself at risk. I wouldnt call this concept reduction of free speech, when in fact all it takes away is the liberty to insult someone in certain ways.
- istjohn 6y ago> I wouldnt call this concept reduction of free speech, when in fact all it takes away is the liberty to insult someone in certain ways. But that's plainly a curtailment of speech. A rose by any other name, etc., etc. Perhaps the restriction is just in your view, but it is what it is.