4 ms·

If I’m your friend on Facebook should you be allowed to go to my page and give all the information I’ve shared with you to another 3rd party? You trust NYU, OK

by Permit 6y ago

If I’m your friend on Facebook should you be allowed to go to my page and give all the information I’ve shared with you to another 3rd party? You trust NYU, OK fine. Can I give the same information about you to pro-Trump researchers?

arbol 6y ago
Yes the OP is absolutely allowed to do this. Their are consequences of befriending people in real life and online. It's up to you to decide who you befriend.
- justapassenger 6y ago
  Not according to FTC.
CivBase 6y ago
You shared the information with your Facebook friends without any protections. Why shouldn't they be allowed to share it with other people? What legal obligation do they have to keep the information you shared private?
- filoleg 6y ago
  >Why shouldn't they be allowed to share it with other people? >What legal obligation do they have to keep the information you shared private? Those exact same questions can very well be asked of the whole Cambridge Analytica scandal, and yet some people will give different answers to those two scenarios. Cambridge Analytica app was explicitly asking users for permission to access their data and data their friends publicly shared with those users. The first one is obviously ok, but the latter was what people had issues with, and I don't see how it is different here. As for what legal obligations your friends have to keep your information private, I don't think they do. However, Facebook does have the obligation to not share info of users who didn't explicitly consent to it with third party apps, according to this order from FTC issued in 2019[0]. And third party apps that share not only your FB info, but that of your friends (who do not use those third-party apps), definitely fall under this. 0. https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/c4365facebookmodifyingorder.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/c4365facebo...
  - CivBase 6y ago
    > However, Facebook does have the obligation to not share info of users who didn't explicitly consent to it with third party apps But Facebook is not sharing info of users' friends. Users are sharing information about their friends. If a user should not be able to access particular information about their friends, then the onus is on Facebook to restrict that access. It was Facebook's fault for exposing excessive data to users' friends during the Cambridge Analytica scandal and it's their fault for doing the same thing now. Facebook needs to clean up their own mess instead of suing research groups for taking advantage of it.
    - filoleg 6y ago
      >It was Facebook's fault for exposing excessive data to users' friends during the Cambridge Analytica scandal I don't follow this logic at all. The data shown to users' friends is the same data that is shown to them now. Which is usually all their public photos (nothing from private albums), the friend list (if they didn't make it private), etc., only the stuff that friends are expected to be able to access (and still can). And on the list of permissions on the permission request page, the app had a separate line for "friends' info" specifically (just like it has for every single permission requested), so there was nothing sneaky about it. The CA app asked users to provide them the same data about their friends that they can see in the browser by visiting their friend's page (and page only, nothing private or your messages with them; basically, only the info that everyone in the same security group that you are in sees). The exact same set of data that the browser extension this whole thread is about is accessing. With that error corrected, it sounds like you are arguing for the case that FB was not at fault during the CA scandal because of all those logical reasons you brought up, and then conclude that FB was at fault and CA was in the clear. I am reserving my own judgement on who was at fault, but I hope you can see why your reply left me (and likely some other people) confused. As a cherry on top, CA didn't acquire the data directly from the app, as it wasn't their app. They got the data later on from a research team at Cambridge University's Psychometrics Center, which was the one originally collecting it. Sounds eerily similar to the scenario at hand.
      - 6y ago
rndgermandude 6y ago
If you do not trust your friend, then unfriend them on facebook. Or sue them. If said friend takes a pic of you and records everything you say in real life and gives that to researchers (or "pro Trump" people), you wouldn't go after your or their landlord claiming they "allowed this to happen", nor would you go after the city where it happened, would you? (your friend is voluntarily participating, knowing what they are doing) Now if the researchers tricked your friend into giving them information about you somehow, then you'd go after your researchers. But do not expect your landlord to go after those researchers for you. (NYU researchers misinforming participants about the scope of their data collection) Now if your friend abused a camera that was sneakily installed by your landlord to obtain that information, then you might go after that landlord (Cambridge Analytica on Facebook)
xg15 6y ago
By that logic, why is it ok for Facebook to have that data? Why is it ok for Facebook to scrape my address book?
- adtac 6y ago
  Not that I want to defend Facebook, but that person entered into an agreement laid out by Facebook's terms of service and privacy policy (lol), not the privacy policy set by this plugin.
  - Natanael_L 6y ago
    The ToS can't guarantee what other users will or will not do with the data displayed to them, though.
  - beagle3 6y ago
    Yes. So if anyone here is in violation, it would be the user installing the plugin. But I don’t remember the TOS says “you promise not to let anyone see the ads we show you” (remember this isn’t the user data that’s being collected)
fredophile 6y ago
Yes. By befriending someone on Facebook you gave them access to data you chose to share with your Facebook friends. You don't get to choose what they do with that data. It's just like if you tell someone something irl and they use that info in a way you don't like. Once you share info you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Unfortunately, Facebook has a history of changing data permissions that have caused info to be shared in ways users didn't intend.
Natanael_L 6y ago
Something can both be a shitty thing to do, and still be allowed because we'd be worse off if we tried to ban it. (Usually because detection and enforcement is absolutely unreasonable)

by Permit 6y ago

arbol 6y ago

Yes the OP is absolutely allowed to do this. Their are consequences of befriending people in real life and online. It's up to you to decide who you befriend.

justapassenger 6y ago
Not according to FTC.

CivBase 6y ago

You shared the information with your Facebook friends without any protections. Why shouldn't they be allowed to share it with other people? What legal obligation do they have to keep the information you shared private?

filoleg 6y ago
>Why shouldn't they be allowed to share it with other people? >What legal obligation do they have to keep the information you shared private? Those exact same questions can very well be asked of the whole Cambridge Analytica scandal, and yet some people will give different answers to those two scenarios. Cambridge Analytica app was explicitly asking users for permission to access their data and data their friends publicly shared with those users. The first one is obviously ok, but the latter was what people had issues with, and I don't see how it is different here. As for what legal obligations your friends have to keep your information private, I don't think they do. However, Facebook does have the obligation to not share info of users who didn't explicitly consent to it with third party apps, according to this order from FTC issued in 2019[0]. And third party apps that share not only your FB info, but that of your friends (who do not use those third-party apps), definitely fall under this. 0. https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/c4365facebookmodifyingorder.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/c4365facebo...
- CivBase 6y ago
  > However, Facebook does have the obligation to not share info of users who didn't explicitly consent to it with third party apps But Facebook is not sharing info of users' friends. Users are sharing information about their friends. If a user should not be able to access particular information about their friends, then the onus is on Facebook to restrict that access. It was Facebook's fault for exposing excessive data to users' friends during the Cambridge Analytica scandal and it's their fault for doing the same thing now. Facebook needs to clean up their own mess instead of suing research groups for taking advantage of it.
  - filoleg 6y ago
    >It was Facebook's fault for exposing excessive data to users' friends during the Cambridge Analytica scandal I don't follow this logic at all. The data shown to users' friends is the same data that is shown to them now. Which is usually all their public photos (nothing from private albums), the friend list (if they didn't make it private), etc., only the stuff that friends are expected to be able to access (and still can). And on the list of permissions on the permission request page, the app had a separate line for "friends' info" specifically (just like it has for every single permission requested), so there was nothing sneaky about it. The CA app asked users to provide them the same data about their friends that they can see in the browser by visiting their friend's page (and page only, nothing private or your messages with them; basically, only the info that everyone in the same security group that you are in sees). The exact same set of data that the browser extension this whole thread is about is accessing. With that error corrected, it sounds like you are arguing for the case that FB was not at fault during the CA scandal because of all those logical reasons you brought up, and then conclude that FB was at fault and CA was in the clear. I am reserving my own judgement on who was at fault, but I hope you can see why your reply left me (and likely some other people) confused. As a cherry on top, CA didn't acquire the data directly from the app, as it wasn't their app. They got the data later on from a research team at Cambridge University's Psychometrics Center, which was the one originally collecting it. Sounds eerily similar to the scenario at hand.
    - 6y ago

rndgermandude 6y ago

If you do not trust your friend, then unfriend them on facebook. Or sue them. If said friend takes a pic of you and records everything you say in real life and gives that to researchers (or "pro Trump" people), you wouldn't go after your or their landlord claiming they "allowed this to happen", nor would you go after the city where it happened, would you? (your friend is voluntarily participating, knowing what they are doing) Now if the researchers tricked your friend into giving them information about you somehow, then you'd go after your researchers. But do not expect your landlord to go after those researchers for you. (NYU researchers misinforming participants about the scope of their data collection) Now if your friend abused a camera that was sneakily installed by your landlord to obtain that information, then you might go after that landlord (Cambridge Analytica on Facebook)

xg15 6y ago

By that logic, why is it ok for Facebook to have that data? Why is it ok for Facebook to scrape my address book?

adtac 6y ago
Not that I want to defend Facebook, but that person entered into an agreement laid out by Facebook's terms of service and privacy policy (lol), not the privacy policy set by this plugin.
- Natanael_L 6y ago
  The ToS can't guarantee what other users will or will not do with the data displayed to them, though.
- beagle3 6y ago
  Yes. So if anyone here is in violation, it would be the user installing the plugin. But I don’t remember the TOS says “you promise not to let anyone see the ads we show you” (remember this isn’t the user data that’s being collected)

fredophile 6y ago

Yes. By befriending someone on Facebook you gave them access to data you chose to share with your Facebook friends. You don't get to choose what they do with that data. It's just like if you tell someone something irl and they use that info in a way you don't like. Once you share info you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Unfortunately, Facebook has a history of changing data permissions that have caused info to be shared in ways users didn't intend.

Natanael_L 6y ago

Something can both be a shitty thing to do, and still be allowed because we'd be worse off if we tried to ban it. (Usually because detection and enforcement is absolutely unreasonable)