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As someone who only really built websites using jQuery / custom vanilla js and good ole CSS2, this stuff feels completely alien to me

deft 6y ago
Same. I mean I understand how it works but I ask myself what's the point every time. I've looked into react and I hate how it works and I hate how every 2 months people are begging for some new optimization because its slow and sucks. Then version 5000 is released and fixes that slowdown, but every react site I've ever used is still buggy and slow as hell.
- archarios 6y ago
  *laughs in modern web development
- jmondi 6y ago
  > but every react site I've ever used is still buggy and slow as hell This is just as asinine as saying "every Ruby on Rails site I've ever used is still buggy and slow as hell". No, every terribly coded site youve used is slow as hell.
  - fraktl 6y ago
    Which means that React attracts people who aren't really developers but they want to jump in on the hype train, right?
    - edgyquant 6y ago
      No. People have said this about every web framework since PHP5 and its not true. Web development does tend to favor fast iteration which can lead to problems if the tech debt compounds but that doesn’t mean the people aren’t developers, at all.
      - fraktl 6y ago
        So what you're saying is that React spawned an army of people who we can call developers, despite them not knowing how browsers and HTTP works, what algorithms are, how to approach developing your javascript app so it doesn't become spaghetti mess in 24 seconds and abusing terminology from systems programming just in order to make their field appear more serious than it is? Now, what word could we use for people who are not.. well, "developers"? Programmers maybe?
        edgyquant 6y ago
        They literally are developers stop gate keeping its ignorant
        archarios 6y ago
        Wow, holy hell. I hope I never have to work with you.
- dntrkv 6y ago
  > hate how it works > its slow and sucks > every react site I've ever used is still buggy and slow as hell Next time try to come up with some rational, objective criticism instead of just hurling insults at the most popular frontend framework. There is a reason people use it, and believe it or not, it's not due to hype.
rgbrenner 6y ago
Try starting with VueJS... it can be added to a page just like jquery and you get the same reactivity/template/etc support on the page without having to setup a compiler/etc. Then after you learn that if you want to create a full app, vue (in vue-cli) has config templates that will help you set everything up so you can just start adding the pages to the app. A full app is nice because the compiler and linting will catch a lot of js errors making your app more reliable, allowing you to write larger apps (this is the biggest reason people use these frameworks). The concepts in Vue are similar enough to React, Nuxt, Next, etc that it's pretty easy to learn the others after you have the basics down.
bredren 6y ago
I had also avoided modern web up until very recently. I focused only on Django sites and wrote custom JavaScript as necessary. I even did a 3 month django project with a view that was almost entirely JavaScript—it would have been a perfect candidate for react but I refused. As a compromise with myself I used es6 js on that and eliminated use of jQuery from my code. About a month ago I started work on react. I had very similar feelings going in and was annoyed at having to figure out the node dependency thing. And I was aghast at the “tool chain” which is the post processing you need to do on React and other modern front end. However, I was really surprised at how much better it is to build front end using this rather than html templates and sprinkles of js. I was also surprised to find out that the django community barely has a pulse compared to what is happening in react. It’s safe back there, but there is no innovation. Once you see what is happening in modern web, it feels like a ghost town. I think it’s a pretty good time to get into React right now. CRA just got an update, functional components are mainstream and now there is this nextjs. I encourage you to give react a try, at the very least it will make you think more about why you’re building the way you are.
- airstrike 6y ago
  Thanks. I really appreciate the story. I'm a long time Django fan so your story resonates. Maybe I'll give React another try one of these days...
  - bredren 6y ago
    You’re welcome. I wish someone in my position was able to give me this same info a year ago. The other thing I’d add is that on my “old” projects, my JS is way better now that I’ve practiced so much es6 in React.

deft 6y ago

Same. I mean I understand how it works but I ask myself what's the point every time. I've looked into react and I hate how it works and I hate how every 2 months people are begging for some new optimization because its slow and sucks. Then version 5000 is released and fixes that slowdown, but every react site I've ever used is still buggy and slow as hell.

archarios 6y ago
*laughs in modern web development
jmondi 6y ago
> but every react site I've ever used is still buggy and slow as hell This is just as asinine as saying "every Ruby on Rails site I've ever used is still buggy and slow as hell". No, every terribly coded site youve used is slow as hell.
- fraktl 6y ago
  Which means that React attracts people who aren't really developers but they want to jump in on the hype train, right?
  - edgyquant 6y ago
    No. People have said this about every web framework since PHP5 and its not true. Web development does tend to favor fast iteration which can lead to problems if the tech debt compounds but that doesn’t mean the people aren’t developers, at all.
    - fraktl 6y ago
      So what you're saying is that React spawned an army of people who we can call developers, despite them not knowing how browsers and HTTP works, what algorithms are, how to approach developing your javascript app so it doesn't become spaghetti mess in 24 seconds and abusing terminology from systems programming just in order to make their field appear more serious than it is? Now, what word could we use for people who are not.. well, "developers"? Programmers maybe?
      - edgyquant 6y ago
        They literally are developers stop gate keeping its ignorant
      - archarios 6y ago
        Wow, holy hell. I hope I never have to work with you.
dntrkv 6y ago
> hate how it works > its slow and sucks > every react site I've ever used is still buggy and slow as hell Next time try to come up with some rational, objective criticism instead of just hurling insults at the most popular frontend framework. There is a reason people use it, and believe it or not, it's not due to hype.

rgbrenner 6y ago

Try starting with VueJS... it can be added to a page just like jquery and you get the same reactivity/template/etc support on the page without having to setup a compiler/etc. Then after you learn that if you want to create a full app, vue (in vue-cli) has config templates that will help you set everything up so you can just start adding the pages to the app. A full app is nice because the compiler and linting will catch a lot of js errors making your app more reliable, allowing you to write larger apps (this is the biggest reason people use these frameworks). The concepts in Vue are similar enough to React, Nuxt, Next, etc that it's pretty easy to learn the others after you have the basics down.

bredren 6y ago

I had also avoided modern web up until very recently. I focused only on Django sites and wrote custom JavaScript as necessary. I even did a 3 month django project with a view that was almost entirely JavaScript—it would have been a perfect candidate for react but I refused. As a compromise with myself I used es6 js on that and eliminated use of jQuery from my code. About a month ago I started work on react. I had very similar feelings going in and was annoyed at having to figure out the node dependency thing. And I was aghast at the “tool chain” which is the post processing you need to do on React and other modern front end. However, I was really surprised at how much better it is to build front end using this rather than html templates and sprinkles of js. I was also surprised to find out that the django community barely has a pulse compared to what is happening in react. It’s safe back there, but there is no innovation. Once you see what is happening in modern web, it feels like a ghost town. I think it’s a pretty good time to get into React right now. CRA just got an update, functional components are mainstream and now there is this nextjs. I encourage you to give react a try, at the very least it will make you think more about why you’re building the way you are.

airstrike 6y ago
Thanks. I really appreciate the story. I'm a long time Django fan so your story resonates. Maybe I'll give React another try one of these days...
- bredren 6y ago
  You’re welcome. I wish someone in my position was able to give me this same info a year ago. The other thing I’d add is that on my “old” projects, my JS is way better now that I’ve practiced so much es6 in React.