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Ok, I don't want to start a language war again, when I say types, I mean the modern reference to the word that it has a static type system. Indeed, Lisp languag

Ok, I don't want to start a language war again, when I say types, I mean the modern reference to the word that it has a static type system. Indeed, Lisp languages are strongly typed but I'm sorry, in the real world it doesn't help me, I need types, statically checked types. I don't know if Lisp, the language, influenced Java and Scala so much, it was more about its runtime, the garbage collector, etc. The only thing that I liked about Lisp is the composabiltiy, and coupled with objects from Simula created my favorite industrial languages, Java and TypeScript. I'm passionate about parsers, compilers and transformers and this is why I have a fost spot for SML, OCaml. I simply dislike Lisp, interesting language but not for me.

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fouric 6y ago
> when I say types, I mean the modern reference to the word that it has a static type system Can you show me a significant body of literature or a whole community that uses "types" to mean "a strong type system"? Because I've never heard that aliasing done before. > I don't know if Lisp, the language, influenced Java and Scala so much, it was more about its runtime, the garbage collector, etc. Lisp pioneered lambdas and first-class functions, in addition to garbage collection, all of which were adopted by Scala and Java later. > I simply dislike Lisp, interesting language but not for me. I understand! I have things that I like and dislike, too. However, it's extremely frustrating when you ask for an analytical comparison between several languages, and some random person lacking knowledge on at least one of the languages (I suspect you don't know Rust either) comes in and, instead of actually providing relevant information, gives fallacies and opinions.
- johnnycerberus 6y ago
  All languages associate types to expressions. But, all dynamic languages can have only one type for expressions. Indeed, dynamic languages associate types to values all the time but there is no static distinction. What people from dynamic languages are calling "types" are in fact runtime tags. What makes Lisp strongly typed are those runtime tags that prevent implicit conversions at runtime, something that JavaScript lacks. In Common Lisp objects are values, so runtime tags are attached to data objects => which are actually values => which are stored in variables => which are not typed. You can make it optionally typed at compile time to help the compiler but that means to annotate your code with 'type' keyword and it's verbose. The compiler does not enforce it.
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  - fouric 6y ago
    Again, I've never seen this distinction made before. Please show me a body of literature that claims that dynamically typed languages do not have a type system - your claims on their own do not convince me.

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fouric 6y ago

> when I say types, I mean the modern reference to the word that it has a static type system Can you show me a significant body of literature or a whole community that uses "types" to mean "a strong type system"? Because I've never heard that aliasing done before. > I don't know if Lisp, the language, influenced Java and Scala so much, it was more about its runtime, the garbage collector, etc. Lisp pioneered lambdas and first-class functions, in addition to garbage collection, all of which were adopted by Scala and Java later. > I simply dislike Lisp, interesting language but not for me. I understand! I have things that I like and dislike, too. However, it's extremely frustrating when you ask for an analytical comparison between several languages, and some random person lacking knowledge on at least one of the languages (I suspect you don't know Rust either) comes in and, instead of actually providing relevant information, gives fallacies and opinions.

johnnycerberus 6y ago
All languages associate types to expressions. But, all dynamic languages can have only one type for expressions. Indeed, dynamic languages associate types to values all the time but there is no static distinction. What people from dynamic languages are calling "types" are in fact runtime tags. What makes Lisp strongly typed are those runtime tags that prevent implicit conversions at runtime, something that JavaScript lacks. In Common Lisp objects are values, so runtime tags are attached to data objects => which are actually values => which are stored in variables => which are not typed. You can make it optionally typed at compile time to help the compiler but that means to annotate your code with 'type' keyword and it's verbose. The compiler does not enforce it.
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- fouric 6y ago
  Again, I've never seen this distinction made before. Please show me a body of literature that claims that dynamically typed languages do not have a type system - your claims on their own do not convince me.