4 ms·

The digitalization is work in progress and there are some hit or miss. I'm a Spaniard that currently lives in another (richer) EU country so that gives me some

by pa7x1 6y ago

The digitalization is work in progress and there are some hit or miss. I'm a Spaniard that currently lives in another (richer) EU country so that gives me some contrast on what is being done well and what needs to be improved. - Use of x.509 is nice but the installation process is tricky for non-experts (the root certificates are not trusted by your OS or browser) and yearly the root certificates need to be changed for reasons that escape my understanding. Usually root certificates should have longer lives, but somehow every year I have to update them. Are they being compromised?!? - The government ID process is a breeze in comparison with other EU countries and quite cheap in comparison, too. The ID card is itself a smart card with your certificates (this is quite common in the EU). The newest ID card also has NFC and can be used to authenticate with government institutions with your phone, quite neat! - FTTH penetration is quite nice, indeed. Internet prices are also reasonably low and internet packs don't have bullshit restrictions on downloads. - One of the quirkiest/funniest examples of a digitalization miss was dealing with the notary on a recent house purchase of a family member. After everything was done we received a copy from the notary with the official documents of the property registration, which included as an annex a printed XML with the GML detailing the limits of the property. When I asked for the digital version of said XML we received a PDF with a scan of said XML. I laughed and desisted in my effort to obtain the .xml file. It shows that things are headed in the right direction but there are some hiccups when the rubber meets the road, in this case the notary or its secretary were technologically illiterate and did not receive any formation on how to handle this type of documents.

Hokusai 6y ago
> yearly the root certificates need to be changed for reasons that escape my understanding It is not needed yearly. The validity is 4 years for "personal" certificates: https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/preguntas-frecuentes/problemas-y-dudas/-/asset_publisher/fVZppcBHj0oa/content/1146-que-periodo-de-validez-tiene-un-certificado-fnmt-de-persona-fisica- https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/preguntas-frecuentes/problemas-... > (the root certificates are not trusted by your OS or browser You can use the Automatic Configurator. Just run the "Configurador FNMT-RCM.". It should help your less tech savvy acquaintances. > we received a copy from the notary with the official documents of the property registration, which included as an annex a printed XML with the GML detailing the limits of the property. That's funny, but I agree it is a missed opportunity.
- pa7x1 6y ago
  Thanks for the tips and clarifications. > It is not needed yearly. The validity is 4 years for "personal" certificates: Indeed, the "personal" certificate is invalidated each 4 years and you have to visit the police to get a new one. What I meant is that the root (or subordinates) certificates of the FNMT are revoked with a surprisingly high frequency. With "yearly" I mean that roughly every year I have to see what's up with the certificates on my dad's computer as he complains he cannot log in anymore to AEAT, at first I assumed he misconfigured something but nope it's the public certificate of the root or subordinate CAs that have to be changed as the previous ones are revoked. This is done with a noticeably higher frequency than needed. This has happened several times and always leaves me baffled as what could be the reason.
  - yokaze 6y ago
    > I mean that roughly every year I have to see what's up with the certificates on my dad's computer as he complains he cannot log in anymore to AEAT, at first I assumed he misconfigured something but nope it's the public certificate of the root or subordinate CAs that have to be changed as the previous ones are revoked Are you sure? As far as I know, your OS doesn't need to recognise the root certificate to authenticate yourself towards a web-server, the web-server needs to know it. At least when I was working with client certificates, I was working with a self-signed one, and I didn't need to register my CA, I just dropped it with the web-server, which was doing the validation. I tried it now with a MacOS, and the certificate is marked as not trusted, but I can present it to the server, and it validates it. > Indeed, the "personal" certificate is invalidated each 4 years and you have to visit the police to get a new one. As I read it, you can renovate it online 60 days before expiry: https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/en/certificados/persona-fisica/renovar https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/en/certificados/persona-fisica/... Also rather with the AEAT, if you prefer.
lentil_soup 6y ago
> The government ID process is a breeze in comparison with other EU countries and quite cheap in comparison, too. That's true for the spanish national's ID (the DNI) but for foreigners, even EU ones, it's a huge pain. I've lived in a couple of EU coutries and only Spain asked EU members for a special card (NIE), private health insurance, bank account details, etc
- pa7x1 6y ago
  I'm sorry you had that experience. I find those requirements reasonably acceptable, they are there to ensure you are not a burden to the social welfare system. Spain has universal healthcare, if you go to an emergency room with a problem they will give you medical attention no payment details asked. I'm guessing you arrived to Spain without a work contract and hence to obtain a residence they required you to have a private insurance to ensure you are not moving to Spain to receive medical attention (there were some cases decades ago of americans coming to Spain for hip surgeries and the like). If it makes you feel any better, it can be much worse. I present to you Belgium's bureaucracy! Obtaining residence in Belgium includes circular dependencies (you need bank account and work contract to obtain residence, you need residence to obtain bank account). Multiple visits to the administration for different steps. A visit by the Police to your house (usually during work-hours), including inviting them over to snoop around. And the entire process takes between 6 to 12 months due to the slowness of everything. If you switch from one town to another you have to re-register again (a quicker process that still requires a visit to the town hall) and another visit by the Police to snoop around again.
  - lentil_soup 6y ago
    oh yeah, that sounds painful as well! My experience in the UK and Germany (as a EU citizen and pre-brexit UK) has been that you get there and that's it, you can rent a house you can register with the doctor. There's no special card, there's no police involved. It's how I'd expect the idea of free movement within the EU to work. I understand the problem with people coming to Spain to just get a surgery but surely for a EU citizen it could be simpler since the idea is that we all have the same rights. I don't think the health system in Spain is much different to the NHS where there's no payment involved.

by pa7x1 6y ago

Hokusai 6y ago

> yearly the root certificates need to be changed for reasons that escape my understanding It is not needed yearly. The validity is 4 years for "personal" certificates: https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/preguntas-frecuentes/problemas-y-dudas/-/asset_publisher/fVZppcBHj0oa/content/1146-que-periodo-de-validez-tiene-un-certificado-fnmt-de-persona-fisica- https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/preguntas-frecuentes/problemas-... > (the root certificates are not trusted by your OS or browser You can use the Automatic Configurator. Just run the "Configurador FNMT-RCM.". It should help your less tech savvy acquaintances. > we received a copy from the notary with the official documents of the property registration, which included as an annex a printed XML with the GML detailing the limits of the property. That's funny, but I agree it is a missed opportunity.

pa7x1 6y ago
Thanks for the tips and clarifications. > It is not needed yearly. The validity is 4 years for "personal" certificates: Indeed, the "personal" certificate is invalidated each 4 years and you have to visit the police to get a new one. What I meant is that the root (or subordinates) certificates of the FNMT are revoked with a surprisingly high frequency. With "yearly" I mean that roughly every year I have to see what's up with the certificates on my dad's computer as he complains he cannot log in anymore to AEAT, at first I assumed he misconfigured something but nope it's the public certificate of the root or subordinate CAs that have to be changed as the previous ones are revoked. This is done with a noticeably higher frequency than needed. This has happened several times and always leaves me baffled as what could be the reason.
- yokaze 6y ago
  > I mean that roughly every year I have to see what's up with the certificates on my dad's computer as he complains he cannot log in anymore to AEAT, at first I assumed he misconfigured something but nope it's the public certificate of the root or subordinate CAs that have to be changed as the previous ones are revoked Are you sure? As far as I know, your OS doesn't need to recognise the root certificate to authenticate yourself towards a web-server, the web-server needs to know it. At least when I was working with client certificates, I was working with a self-signed one, and I didn't need to register my CA, I just dropped it with the web-server, which was doing the validation. I tried it now with a MacOS, and the certificate is marked as not trusted, but I can present it to the server, and it validates it. > Indeed, the "personal" certificate is invalidated each 4 years and you have to visit the police to get a new one. As I read it, you can renovate it online 60 days before expiry: https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/en/certificados/persona-fisica/renovar https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/en/certificados/persona-fisica/... Also rather with the AEAT, if you prefer.

lentil_soup 6y ago

> The government ID process is a breeze in comparison with other EU countries and quite cheap in comparison, too. That's true for the spanish national's ID (the DNI) but for foreigners, even EU ones, it's a huge pain. I've lived in a couple of EU coutries and only Spain asked EU members for a special card (NIE), private health insurance, bank account details, etc

pa7x1 6y ago
I'm sorry you had that experience. I find those requirements reasonably acceptable, they are there to ensure you are not a burden to the social welfare system. Spain has universal healthcare, if you go to an emergency room with a problem they will give you medical attention no payment details asked. I'm guessing you arrived to Spain without a work contract and hence to obtain a residence they required you to have a private insurance to ensure you are not moving to Spain to receive medical attention (there were some cases decades ago of americans coming to Spain for hip surgeries and the like). If it makes you feel any better, it can be much worse. I present to you Belgium's bureaucracy! Obtaining residence in Belgium includes circular dependencies (you need bank account and work contract to obtain residence, you need residence to obtain bank account). Multiple visits to the administration for different steps. A visit by the Police to your house (usually during work-hours), including inviting them over to snoop around. And the entire process takes between 6 to 12 months due to the slowness of everything. If you switch from one town to another you have to re-register again (a quicker process that still requires a visit to the town hall) and another visit by the Police to snoop around again.
- lentil_soup 6y ago
  oh yeah, that sounds painful as well! My experience in the UK and Germany (as a EU citizen and pre-brexit UK) has been that you get there and that's it, you can rent a house you can register with the doctor. There's no special card, there's no police involved. It's how I'd expect the idea of free movement within the EU to work. I understand the problem with people coming to Spain to just get a surgery but surely for a EU citizen it could be simpler since the idea is that we all have the same rights. I don't think the health system in Spain is much different to the NHS where there's no payment involved.