3 ms·
Is the relativistic mass required to be dependent on the velocity or on the reference frame ? For most massive particles, depending on the one should be equival
by drdeca 6y ago
Is the relativistic mass required to be dependent on the velocity or on the reference frame ? For most massive particles, depending on the one should be equivalent to being dependent on the other, right? Seeing as for massless particles , the velocity is always c and therefore "dependent on the velocity" doesn't really make sense, why isn't "dependent on the reference frame" the appropriate extension of the concept?
The [the quantity I described] definitely depends on the reference frame for which the photon is being described, because the photon's frequency and wavelength depend on ones reference frame.
I don't know why you brought up the photon traveling through different mediums. I've been assuming it was traveling through a vacuum. Bringing in a medium seems like it would just complicate things. Maybe you thought I was thinking of it moving in a medium so that it was sorta moving at less than c, so that there could maybe be reference frame for which it is at rest? This is not what I was thinking of. I mean to address only the case of a photon in a vacuum.
And yes, of course there would be no reference frame in which the photon's [the quantity I'm describing] becomes equal to its rest mass, which is 0. That is implied by what I've said, namely, that the [the quantity I'm describing] is never 0, but changes with the reference frame. There are reference frames in which [the quantity I'm describing] is arbitrarily close to 0, but none in which it is 0.
The footnotes at the bottom of the wikipedia article on "Photon" do describe photons as having non-zero relativistic mass, though also notes that some prefer not to use the concept of relativistic mass.
In any case, at the very least, if one is to speak of the relativistic mass of a photon, it is not 0. If anything it is either "nonsense quantity" or [the quantity I have been describing] . Not 0.
- dogma1138 6y agoThe wikipedia entry is a bit of a hit and miss, but in general "relativistic mass" isn't a concept that is used, in fact many SR courses don't skip it per-say but don't call it that way. The point is if you apply any of the relativistic momentum formulas to photon you will not get a sensible result, basically you'll either get 0 or 0 over 0, same goes for other mass related things in special relativity such as center of momentum and center of mass also break down. The "mass" of a photon doesn't come out of special relativity, and trying to calculate it using SR will not work, photons have linear momentum this comes out of Planck's law and the photoelectric effect. This is a good video that might explain the concept/confusion when it comes to relativistic mass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTJauaefTZM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTJauaefTZM