6 ms·

Invites sent for Starlink beta

55 points by modeless 6y ago

teruakohatu 6y ago
The antenna price is high. I am surprised they are not offering a rental eg. $99+$xx/month antenna included.
- modeless 6y ago
  This price may already be significantly subsidized. A lot of people were expecting $2k+ for the antenna. This type of phased array antenna has never been mass produced for consumers before. Similar antennas have been extremely expensive. People are also saying that the existing satellite providers (ViaSat, HughesNet) charge a similar amount up front for equipment/install. But they're going to have to radically drop their prices as soon as Starlink becomes available, because it's a clearly superior product in pretty much every way.
- himinlomax 6y ago
  When you said "high", I didn't expect it to be just $499. Just look how much a regular old sat or land microwave antenna cost, it's not that much less. It's not even that much more than a 4G router. Also compare to the cost of trench work or pylons required for wiring a remote rural location — it's a bargain.
  - Gwypaas 6y ago
    It's really nothing! Compare to a Iridium Go! which is what many cruisers nowadays use to download weather forecasts off-shore. Around $700 for the base unit and then even more if you want an outside antenna. This is even omnidirectional. [0] Taking the step up to directional gyro stabilized antennas and the prices just balloon to almost insane numbers even today.[1] Then go on and add a data package.... [0]: https://www.amazon.com/Iridium-GO-Satellite-Terminal-included/dp/B01C2FW7RE https://www.amazon.com/Iridium-GO-Satellite-Terminal-include... [1]: https://www.satphonestore.com/tech-browsing/satellite-internet-marine.html https://www.satphonestore.com/tech-browsing/satellite-intern...
sargun 6y ago
I would love to see a teardown of the antenna.
Trias11 6y ago
It feels like it’s more catering to “deep in the woods” customers vs. “anything but Comcast et.al.” customers.
- modeless 6y ago
  The service fundamentally can't support a high density of customers due to limited capacity per satellite. So yes, Starlink is not for people who already have cable in cities or even suburbs. Starlink is for rural areas, and (in the future) vehicles like boats or planes.
  - BurningFrog 6y ago
    You can always send up more satellites though. At some point, the orbit is full, but I assume that is very far off.
    - modeless 6y ago
      Starlink will already be the largest satellite constellation by two orders of magnitude. To replace cable they'd probably need another couple of orders of magnitude beyond that. And satellites are not the only limited resource; spectrum may be harder to come by.
    - cnlevy 6y ago
      The beam width limits bandwidth to a coverage of 1 satellite per ~52 sq km https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/jiu1uq/looks_like_starlink_public_beta_has_begun/ga8qik4/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/jiu1uq/looks_...
      - mlindner 6y ago
        To be fair, that is the current implementation with current satellites. Hypothetical situations allow numerous things, including narrower beam width.
neals 6y ago
I wish I had it in March so I could have set sail in my boat, away from the pandemic, but while continuing my work.
- yencabulator 6y ago
  A boat would probably rock the antenna way too much, I think you're looking at V3 of the product earliest. Assuming V2 is vehicles, or at least stationary vehicles.
Andys 6y ago
I am guessing Starlink has commercial/military/industrial uses that are already bankrolling the project, and consumer use is the cream on the cake in terms of profit
- modeless 6y ago
  I don't think that's the case at all. Consumer should be by far the biggest market. They've focused a lot on reducing the price of the antenna, manufacturing in volume, and making setup super simple. None of that is very relevant for commercial or military use.
  - drawfloat 6y ago
    It seems fairly short sighted after the last decade to not assume there is also a military, state, or data collection side to a tech startup's business case. There are definitely applications for this in all those sectors, the onus should be on Starlink to confirm that they don't or assume they are – particularly in light of Elon's recent announcement about SpaceX weapon drops.
    - modeless 6y ago
      There are undoubtedly military applications and it's not a secret conspiracy or anything. The US military has already tested Starlink and it's been publicly announced. SpaceX is already a military contractor in other areas, of course. But the consumer market is bigger. It's not an afterthought; it's the main event. And AFAIK SpaceX's funding for Starlink is a combination of their own revenue from launch services, and private VC. So it's not correct to say that the military is "bankrolling" Starlink, except to the extent that they buy unrelated launch services from SpaceX.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > StarLink has commercial/military/industrial uses that are already bankrolling the project These are the obvious long-term customers. But I don’t think they are bankrolling the venture. High-income rural homes are a good beachhead since a partial constellation can deliver 100% uptime to some locations.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
Can you turn the subscription on and off? I would love this for the summer months, when I tend to be in remote places.
skissane 6y ago
What geographies are they sending these invites to? From Reddit, it sounds like northwestern states of the United States (people in Washington and Idaho have got them). I wonder if anyone from Australia has got an invite? I get the impression that the answer is no. It makes sense to me why in early phases they'd restrict it to the US – putting aside geographical issues around where their satellites and ground stations are, restricting it to the US means they only have to deal with one regulator, the FCC; every additional country is another regulator to deal with, and different sets of rules around matters such as privacy, lawful interception, metadata retention, etc.
- modeless 6y ago
  Yes, northwestern US to start. The three restrictions are spectrum/telecom licenses, ground stations, and satellite orbits. They only have licenses in the US right now, the satellite orbits favor high latitudes, and the first ground stations are in Washington state. They're actively pursuing licenses in many other countries including Canada and Australia. Coverage will come to lower latitudes as they fill out the satellite constellation and build more ground stations. But truly global coverage (e.g. over oceans and the poles where there are no ground stations) will have to wait until they launch their v2 constellation with cross-satellite laser links.
  - samoa42 6y ago
    afaik pole coverage is not on the table
    - nkoren 6y ago
      They've got an orbital plane planned at 80 degrees, which will get pretty close.
      - modeless 6y ago
        v2 is planned to have coverage at the poles, for continuous coverage of the entire surface of the Earth. https://fcc.report/IBFS/SAT-LOA-20200526-00055/2378669 https://fcc.report/IBFS/SAT-LOA-20200526-00055/2378669
jtthe13 6y ago
Having people to pay for a beta. How musk-y.
aero-glide 6y ago
Mobile app : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.starlink.mobile https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.starlink.m...
chrismorgan 6y ago
I’m curious whether you’ll be able to mount the antenna on a vehicle and use it in remote places while (a) stationary or (b) moving. I’m guessing the answer is not yet publicly stated or known?
- mlindner 6y ago
  Elon Musk has sort of stated a couple times that it will be possible. The antenna does need to automaticaly pan/tilt to get an optimum direction for most view of satellites, but most of the beam steering is electronic. They've already used it aboard military aircraft and it's been stated the plan is to sell to aircraft and ocean going vessels
- nickik 6y ago
  Some people are already testing that, seems to work fine. However current antennas are not fundamentally design for it, they are designed for stationary. But we know they are already testing other types of system, we have seen Starlink hardware that looks very different from the consumer ones on planes. I expect those things to start to come out or at least be announced next year.
apexalpha 6y ago
How does a link like this hold up with different weather? Are there people here who have internet from geo-stationairy sats? Does it stay up during cloudy weather, rain, thunder?
- mlindner 6y ago
  > How does a link like this hold up with different weather? Entirely dependent on how it was implemented. So not really possible for anyone to answer based on available information. There's numerous variables that go into it, some of which are known some of which aren't. Short list of some: Frequency used (known), bandwidth per channel, software used in base station and satellite (error correcting algorithms and signal processing), percentage of the time the dish is aimed at satellites directly overhead (less atmosphere/stuff to go through) which will improve with time, altitude of satellite (known). > Are there people here who have internet from geo-stationairy sats? Geo-stationary isn't really comparable as it's a much older technology, as are the base stations. The satellites are also much further away (as in over 70 times further away).

55 points by modeless 6y ago

teruakohatu 6y ago

The antenna price is high. I am surprised they are not offering a rental eg. $99+$xx/month antenna included.

modeless 6y ago
This price may already be significantly subsidized. A lot of people were expecting $2k+ for the antenna. This type of phased array antenna has never been mass produced for consumers before. Similar antennas have been extremely expensive. People are also saying that the existing satellite providers (ViaSat, HughesNet) charge a similar amount up front for equipment/install. But they're going to have to radically drop their prices as soon as Starlink becomes available, because it's a clearly superior product in pretty much every way.
himinlomax 6y ago
When you said "high", I didn't expect it to be just $499. Just look how much a regular old sat or land microwave antenna cost, it's not that much less. It's not even that much more than a 4G router. Also compare to the cost of trench work or pylons required for wiring a remote rural location — it's a bargain.
- Gwypaas 6y ago
  It's really nothing! Compare to a Iridium Go! which is what many cruisers nowadays use to download weather forecasts off-shore. Around $700 for the base unit and then even more if you want an outside antenna. This is even omnidirectional. [0] Taking the step up to directional gyro stabilized antennas and the prices just balloon to almost insane numbers even today.[1] Then go on and add a data package.... [0]: https://www.amazon.com/Iridium-GO-Satellite-Terminal-included/dp/B01C2FW7RE https://www.amazon.com/Iridium-GO-Satellite-Terminal-include... [1]: https://www.satphonestore.com/tech-browsing/satellite-internet-marine.html https://www.satphonestore.com/tech-browsing/satellite-intern...

sargun 6y ago

I would love to see a teardown of the antenna.

Trias11 6y ago

It feels like it’s more catering to “deep in the woods” customers vs. “anything but Comcast et.al.” customers.

modeless 6y ago
The service fundamentally can't support a high density of customers due to limited capacity per satellite. So yes, Starlink is not for people who already have cable in cities or even suburbs. Starlink is for rural areas, and (in the future) vehicles like boats or planes.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  You can always send up more satellites though. At some point, the orbit is full, but I assume that is very far off.
  - modeless 6y ago
    Starlink will already be the largest satellite constellation by two orders of magnitude. To replace cable they'd probably need another couple of orders of magnitude beyond that. And satellites are not the only limited resource; spectrum may be harder to come by.
  - cnlevy 6y ago
    The beam width limits bandwidth to a coverage of 1 satellite per ~52 sq km https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/jiu1uq/looks_like_starlink_public_beta_has_begun/ga8qik4/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/jiu1uq/looks_...
    - mlindner 6y ago
      To be fair, that is the current implementation with current satellites. Hypothetical situations allow numerous things, including narrower beam width.

neals 6y ago

I wish I had it in March so I could have set sail in my boat, away from the pandemic, but while continuing my work.

yencabulator 6y ago
A boat would probably rock the antenna way too much, I think you're looking at V3 of the product earliest. Assuming V2 is vehicles, or at least stationary vehicles.

Andys 6y ago

I am guessing Starlink has commercial/military/industrial uses that are already bankrolling the project, and consumer use is the cream on the cake in terms of profit

modeless 6y ago
I don't think that's the case at all. Consumer should be by far the biggest market. They've focused a lot on reducing the price of the antenna, manufacturing in volume, and making setup super simple. None of that is very relevant for commercial or military use.
- drawfloat 6y ago
  It seems fairly short sighted after the last decade to not assume there is also a military, state, or data collection side to a tech startup's business case. There are definitely applications for this in all those sectors, the onus should be on Starlink to confirm that they don't or assume they are – particularly in light of Elon's recent announcement about SpaceX weapon drops.
  - modeless 6y ago
    There are undoubtedly military applications and it's not a secret conspiracy or anything. The US military has already tested Starlink and it's been publicly announced. SpaceX is already a military contractor in other areas, of course. But the consumer market is bigger. It's not an afterthought; it's the main event. And AFAIK SpaceX's funding for Starlink is a combination of their own revenue from launch services, and private VC. So it's not correct to say that the military is "bankrolling" Starlink, except to the extent that they buy unrelated launch services from SpaceX.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> StarLink has commercial/military/industrial uses that are already bankrolling the project These are the obvious long-term customers. But I don’t think they are bankrolling the venture. High-income rural homes are a good beachhead since a partial constellation can deliver 100% uptime to some locations.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

Can you turn the subscription on and off? I would love this for the summer months, when I tend to be in remote places.

skissane 6y ago

What geographies are they sending these invites to? From Reddit, it sounds like northwestern states of the United States (people in Washington and Idaho have got them). I wonder if anyone from Australia has got an invite? I get the impression that the answer is no. It makes sense to me why in early phases they'd restrict it to the US – putting aside geographical issues around where their satellites and ground stations are, restricting it to the US means they only have to deal with one regulator, the FCC; every additional country is another regulator to deal with, and different sets of rules around matters such as privacy, lawful interception, metadata retention, etc.

modeless 6y ago
Yes, northwestern US to start. The three restrictions are spectrum/telecom licenses, ground stations, and satellite orbits. They only have licenses in the US right now, the satellite orbits favor high latitudes, and the first ground stations are in Washington state. They're actively pursuing licenses in many other countries including Canada and Australia. Coverage will come to lower latitudes as they fill out the satellite constellation and build more ground stations. But truly global coverage (e.g. over oceans and the poles where there are no ground stations) will have to wait until they launch their v2 constellation with cross-satellite laser links.
- samoa42 6y ago
  afaik pole coverage is not on the table
  - nkoren 6y ago
    They've got an orbital plane planned at 80 degrees, which will get pretty close.
    - modeless 6y ago
      v2 is planned to have coverage at the poles, for continuous coverage of the entire surface of the Earth. https://fcc.report/IBFS/SAT-LOA-20200526-00055/2378669 https://fcc.report/IBFS/SAT-LOA-20200526-00055/2378669

jtthe13 6y ago

Having people to pay for a beta. How musk-y.

aero-glide 6y ago

Mobile app : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.starlink.mobile https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.starlink.m...

chrismorgan 6y ago

I’m curious whether you’ll be able to mount the antenna on a vehicle and use it in remote places while (a) stationary or (b) moving. I’m guessing the answer is not yet publicly stated or known?

mlindner 6y ago
Elon Musk has sort of stated a couple times that it will be possible. The antenna does need to automaticaly pan/tilt to get an optimum direction for most view of satellites, but most of the beam steering is electronic. They've already used it aboard military aircraft and it's been stated the plan is to sell to aircraft and ocean going vessels
nickik 6y ago
Some people are already testing that, seems to work fine. However current antennas are not fundamentally design for it, they are designed for stationary. But we know they are already testing other types of system, we have seen Starlink hardware that looks very different from the consumer ones on planes. I expect those things to start to come out or at least be announced next year.

apexalpha 6y ago

How does a link like this hold up with different weather? Are there people here who have internet from geo-stationairy sats? Does it stay up during cloudy weather, rain, thunder?

mlindner 6y ago
> How does a link like this hold up with different weather? Entirely dependent on how it was implemented. So not really possible for anyone to answer based on available information. There's numerous variables that go into it, some of which are known some of which aren't. Short list of some: Frequency used (known), bandwidth per channel, software used in base station and satellite (error correcting algorithms and signal processing), percentage of the time the dish is aimed at satellites directly overhead (less atmosphere/stuff to go through) which will improve with time, altitude of satellite (known). > Are there people here who have internet from geo-stationairy sats? Geo-stationary isn't really comparable as it's a much older technology, as are the base stations. The satellites are also much further away (as in over 70 times further away).