3 ms·

We shouldn’t call women ‘menstruators’

chovyfu 6y ago
lol who calls them that? honestly, my wife would beat the shit out of me.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  Apparently there is a name for her. TERF. [..] If you didn’t already know – and why should you? – ‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In practice, a huge and diverse cross-section of women are currently being called TERFs and the vast majority have never been radical feminists. Examples of so-called TERFs range from the mother of a gay child who was afraid their child wanted to transition to escape homophobic bullying, to a hitherto totally unfeminist older lady who’s vowed never to visit Marks & Spencer again because they’re allowing any man who says they identify as a woman into the women’s changing rooms. Ironically, radical feminists aren’t even trans-exclusionary – they include trans men in their feminism, because they were born women.[..] From: https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-... As a biological woman, I feel this surprising sense of..loss. Like a loss of identity. I don’t know what to feel. I am gobsmacked.
  - pksebben 6y ago
    On what evidence does this person's wife qualify as a TERF, and who is calling her that other than yourself?
    - chovyfu 6y ago
      what the hell is a TERF?
      - pksebben 6y ago
        Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist - It's a term for someone who is a feminist, but doesn't want Trans people benefiting from their activism, or identifying as anything other than what they were assigned at birth. Depending on who you ask, it's either a ridiculous leftist flailing or a legitimate painting of a behavior as a kind of uncle-tom-ism. I tend towards the latter, myself.
        jelliclesfarm 6y ago
        What is ‘Uncle Tom’ism. ETA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom_syndrome Is this what you meant?
        pksebben 6y ago
        Precisely, yes. Specifically > In a broader context, the term may refer to a minority's strategy of coping with oppression from socially, culturally, or economically dominant groups involving suppression of aggressive feelings and even identification with the oppressor, leading to forced assimilation/acculturation of the cultural minority.[3]
        jelliclesfarm 6y ago
        I don’t get it. Who is 1. The minority 2. Dominant group 3. Oppressor?
        pksebben 6y ago
        replying to > I don’t get it. Who is 1. The minority 2. Dominant group 3. Oppressor? ...because we have reached peak nesting. 2 + 3 are the same thing - in this context, as we are talking about feminism, cis white males. Why cis and white? Because that is the demographic that has held the strongest monopoly on cultural and political power - from priests to politicians. 1. The minority (defined, in this case, as the class(es) with inferior cultural and political power) - is sort of the sticking point between a TERF and not-a-TERF. If you are a TERF, you define the boundaries of this class as "assigned at birth biological women" - these are your compatriots for whom you march to get rights for. In your opinion, there is no Uncle Tomming happening, because you are engaging in the fight with all good faith that the oppressed (women by your definition) are being represented against the entrenched desires of the opressors (men). However, if you are of the opinion that the circle of individuals deserving of representation includes both assigned-at-birth and Trans women, then by your standard, any woman who engages in the same oppressive behavior that men do (in targeting or singling out Trans individuals for derision / marginalization) is an Uncle Tom. They are more closely identifying themselves with the oppressor than the oppressed. Mind you, this is not to say that a) all cis white males are actively engaged in being oppressive or b) women, whether they are labeled as a Terf or not, are part of the oppressing class ...it is merely a distinction useful to those who are of the belief that as go one, go all, and that Trans women have just as much a right to be recognized as such. edit: apologies, I suppose I just missed the appropriate 'reply' button, but I swear it wasn't showing up before.
    - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
      I am not calling her that. I pointed out ..facetiously..that she(like me) would likely qualify for that label.
dragonwriter 6y ago
People who menstruate need menstrual products. Not all women menstruate, and transmen may menstruate and certainly, by definition, do not identify as women, and that's even before considering those of nonbinary gender identity. “People who menstruate” (the term actually used) is different from “menstruators” (the latter is reductionist, the former identifies a trait of people without reducing them to that trait, merely identifying it as one of many traits they have that may or may not be central to their identity; the difference is approximately that between “breeders” and “people with children”.) If you have to change the term used in order to get upset at it, maybe you are trying a little to hard to find an excuse to be upset.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  I don’t understand why it has to be bought up. Biological women shouldn’t need attention to be brought to their menstruation. Post menopausal women do not menstruate. They are women. Not ex-menstruators.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > I don’t understand why it has to be bought up. It was literally a campaign about menstrual hygiene and making menstrual products available to people who need them. Do you not understand: (1) Why the campaign was needed, or (2) Why in the course of conducting the campaign it was necessary to make some reference to the people whose needs the campaign sought to address, or (3) Why the campaign chose to use a term that accurately identified the group it sought to serve without denying the gender identity of any of them? If it is the last, you should understand that when one is having a campaign about awareness of and access to menstrual products, an important focus is likely to be transmen [0]. As such, identifying the target beneficiaries as “women” or “women and girls” is counterproductive. > Post menopausal women do not menstruate. They are women. Not ex-menstruators. Once again, no one (except the complainer) used the term “menstruator” anywhere in this scenario. [0] as an illustration of why, https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-men-pain-menstruation-more-just-physical-n1113961 https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-men-pain...
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
https://www.shethepeople.tv/lgbtqia/menstruators-a-gender-neutral-inclusive-term-for-all-our-period-conversations/ https://www.shethepeople.tv/lgbtqia/menstruators-a-gender-ne... [..] This history of the word Menstruator actually goes back to the third wave of feminism in the west- almost 30 years ago. Often TERFs – Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists have spoken about the term ‘menstruators’ being erasure of femininity. But, femininity is not biological, so why should it be centred around this. Also, this does not in any way complicate ‘periods’ or ‘feminism’ but instead nuance it. This has been a common critique for the inclusion of any intersectionality in feminism, but intersectionality makes feminism more comprehensive. Another thing to notice is the constant discourse around the ‘body’. It says, transmasculine people still have ‘female bodies’, but using such terminology delegitimises trans people by reducing them to their anatomy. This implicit construction of gender through biological sex leads to violence against trans people, discrimination in availing health care and complete erasure of non-binary folks.[..] Why can’t transgender people call themselves transgender? If anything we must work towards erasing the taboo around transgender.

lol who calls them that? honestly, my wife would beat the shit out of me.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago
Apparently there is a name for her. TERF. [..] If you didn’t already know – and why should you? – ‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In practice, a huge and diverse cross-section of women are currently being called TERFs and the vast majority have never been radical feminists. Examples of so-called TERFs range from the mother of a gay child who was afraid their child wanted to transition to escape homophobic bullying, to a hitherto totally unfeminist older lady who’s vowed never to visit Marks & Spencer again because they’re allowing any man who says they identify as a woman into the women’s changing rooms. Ironically, radical feminists aren’t even trans-exclusionary – they include trans men in their feminism, because they were born women.[..] From: https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-... As a biological woman, I feel this surprising sense of..loss. Like a loss of identity. I don’t know what to feel. I am gobsmacked.
- pksebben 6y ago
  On what evidence does this person's wife qualify as a TERF, and who is calling her that other than yourself?
  - chovyfu 6y ago
    what the hell is a TERF?
    - pksebben 6y ago
      Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist - It's a term for someone who is a feminist, but doesn't want Trans people benefiting from their activism, or identifying as anything other than what they were assigned at birth. Depending on who you ask, it's either a ridiculous leftist flailing or a legitimate painting of a behavior as a kind of uncle-tom-ism. I tend towards the latter, myself.
      - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
        What is ‘Uncle Tom’ism. ETA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom_syndrome Is this what you meant?
        pksebben 6y ago
        Precisely, yes. Specifically > In a broader context, the term may refer to a minority's strategy of coping with oppression from socially, culturally, or economically dominant groups involving suppression of aggressive feelings and even identification with the oppressor, leading to forced assimilation/acculturation of the cultural minority.[3]
        jelliclesfarm 6y ago
        I don’t get it. Who is 1. The minority 2. Dominant group 3. Oppressor?
        pksebben 6y ago
        replying to > I don’t get it. Who is 1. The minority 2. Dominant group 3. Oppressor? ...because we have reached peak nesting. 2 + 3 are the same thing - in this context, as we are talking about feminism, cis white males. Why cis and white? Because that is the demographic that has held the strongest monopoly on cultural and political power - from priests to politicians. 1. The minority (defined, in this case, as the class(es) with inferior cultural and political power) - is sort of the sticking point between a TERF and not-a-TERF. If you are a TERF, you define the boundaries of this class as "assigned at birth biological women" - these are your compatriots for whom you march to get rights for. In your opinion, there is no Uncle Tomming happening, because you are engaging in the fight with all good faith that the oppressed (women by your definition) are being represented against the entrenched desires of the opressors (men). However, if you are of the opinion that the circle of individuals deserving of representation includes both assigned-at-birth and Trans women, then by your standard, any woman who engages in the same oppressive behavior that men do (in targeting or singling out Trans individuals for derision / marginalization) is an Uncle Tom. They are more closely identifying themselves with the oppressor than the oppressed. Mind you, this is not to say that a) all cis white males are actively engaged in being oppressive or b) women, whether they are labeled as a Terf or not, are part of the oppressing class ...it is merely a distinction useful to those who are of the belief that as go one, go all, and that Trans women have just as much a right to be recognized as such. edit: apologies, I suppose I just missed the appropriate 'reply' button, but I swear it wasn't showing up before.
  - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
    I am not calling her that. I pointed out ..facetiously..that she(like me) would likely qualify for that label.

People who menstruate need menstrual products. Not all women menstruate, and transmen may menstruate and certainly, by definition, do not identify as women, and that's even before considering those of nonbinary gender identity. “People who menstruate” (the term actually used) is different from “menstruators” (the latter is reductionist, the former identifies a trait of people without reducing them to that trait, merely identifying it as one of many traits they have that may or may not be central to their identity; the difference is approximately that between “breeders” and “people with children”.) If you have to change the term used in order to get upset at it, maybe you are trying a little to hard to find an excuse to be upset.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago
I don’t understand why it has to be bought up. Biological women shouldn’t need attention to be brought to their menstruation. Post menopausal women do not menstruate. They are women. Not ex-menstruators.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > I don’t understand why it has to be bought up. It was literally a campaign about menstrual hygiene and making menstrual products available to people who need them. Do you not understand: (1) Why the campaign was needed, or (2) Why in the course of conducting the campaign it was necessary to make some reference to the people whose needs the campaign sought to address, or (3) Why the campaign chose to use a term that accurately identified the group it sought to serve without denying the gender identity of any of them? If it is the last, you should understand that when one is having a campaign about awareness of and access to menstrual products, an important focus is likely to be transmen [0]. As such, identifying the target beneficiaries as “women” or “women and girls” is counterproductive. > Post menopausal women do not menstruate. They are women. Not ex-menstruators. Once again, no one (except the complainer) used the term “menstruator” anywhere in this scenario. [0] as an illustration of why, https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-men-pain-menstruation-more-just-physical-n1113961 https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-men-pain...

jelliclesfarm 6y ago

https://www.shethepeople.tv/lgbtqia/menstruators-a-gender-neutral-inclusive-term-for-all-our-period-conversations/ https://www.shethepeople.tv/lgbtqia/menstruators-a-gender-ne... [..] This history of the word Menstruator actually goes back to the third wave of feminism in the west- almost 30 years ago. Often TERFs – Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists have spoken about the term ‘menstruators’ being erasure of femininity. But, femininity is not biological, so why should it be centred around this. Also, this does not in any way complicate ‘periods’ or ‘feminism’ but instead nuance it. This has been a common critique for the inclusion of any intersectionality in feminism, but intersectionality makes feminism more comprehensive. Another thing to notice is the constant discourse around the ‘body’. It says, transmasculine people still have ‘female bodies’, but using such terminology delegitimises trans people by reducing them to their anatomy. This implicit construction of gender through biological sex leads to violence against trans people, discrimination in availing health care and complete erasure of non-binary folks.[..] Why can’t transgender people call themselves transgender? If anything we must work towards erasing the taboo around transgender.