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Is the way "Apple is organized for innovation" the reason why XCode is so prone to crashing? Is it why so many of Apple's new APIs are lacking documentation? Is

Is the way "Apple is organized for innovation" the reason why XCode is so prone to crashing? Is it why so many of Apple's new APIs are lacking documentation? Is it the reason the iOS Simulator doesn't reliably export the accessibility tree needed to run XCUI tests without flaking half the time? What about the fact that they haven't announced a single new product category since the Apple Watch in 2014? To my mind, it certainly seems as if Apple is actually organized to simply refine the innovations of its past, much like the conventionally grown tomatoes that we've all grown accustomed to. Apple is now just another amplified thing, very much in the mold of our post-WWII mindset.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
robotresearcher 6y ago
> What about the fact that they haven't announced a single new product category since the Apple Watch in 2014? AirPods (2016) are pretty popular. (edit: I listed some of Apple's recent new services here, but removed since the AirPods make the point by themselves. Apologies to user optimiz3 for leaving your comment dangling.)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- optimiz3 6y ago
  A credit card is a bit of a stretch. Virtually every enterprise in existence has tried to get me to sign up for their in-house card since the mid 80s.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ebg13 6y ago
    I would argue that Apple card is actually a significantly different and better experience purely by virtue of being able to cycle the number at will. I no longer have to worry about the safety of handing my card number out over the phone. I no longer have to wait for a new card if the old number gets compromised. I no longer have to deal with completely inept new card processing agents who fail to actually send the card to the right address while I'm traveling after half a dozen tries and they keep just sending the damned thing to my house which they know I'm not at.
  - AlphaSite 6y ago
    I mean if you look at it in conjunction with Apple pays it’s pretty good.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      How is it any different than with any other card and Apple Pay?
  - rswail 6y ago
    The innovation is that it is not actually a credit card as previously known. It can't be used manually, it is a way to get retailers to move to Chip and Contactless, which is a way to get them and their merchant acquirers to move to Apple Pay.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
travjones 6y ago
woah, big tyme hater
cageface 6y ago
To be fair the smartphone was a once in a generation event. I think Apple still has a lot of structural advantages when it comes to inventing new product categories. Coming up with another device with the same impact as the iPhone is going to be very very difficult. That said though I think their services offerings so far are underwhelming.
dathinab 6y ago
> simply refine the innovations This was always apples thing. I mean even if we go back to the apple watch. Was it a new innovation? No, not at all. Other companies had produced similar products years before, just non did put enough mony into it to refine it to the degree Apple did. Same goes for their ARM chips. They didn't invent them nor did they invent the idea of fast ARM chips. But they took and refined them over many product generations to now yield excellent results. Same for ARM laptops. Same for a lot of their software innovations. Same for there camera. Through it should be noted that for them to be able to refine thinks to that degree often some technological innovations are mixed in in-between. But that's fine, constant refinement is often more use-full then complete new innovations without refinement. Sadly sometimes the focus on what gets refined in which ways is pretty questionable. In turn refinements you can't sell as innovation get neglected. Also the developer is forced to work with Apple using apple tools so that is often neglected, too. Their is little insensitive for Apple to spend more money on things like that when this will not bring more Users or Developers to Apple. Which is short sighted IMHO given how much money Apple has.
culturestate 6y ago
> it certainly seems as if Apple is actually organized to simply refine the innovations of its past This takes innovation, too. Just because a product isn't a wholly new, virgin thing doesn't mean it isn't innovative. The A-series chips aren't products themselves, for example, but they're certainly innovations. Apple is now the best mobile processor house in the world, and it isn't particularly close - who saw that coming?
- threeseed 6y ago
  > Apple is now the best mobile processor house in the world Will likely be the best laptop processor in the world as well.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Very much doubtful. AMD is seriously on fire, and unless they can pull some magic I don't see that happening.
    - cromka 6y ago
      You’re using an example of an underdog suddenly topping a hegemon in the field to make a point that no other company can do that again?
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        AMD was able to topple Intel because Intel was stagnant. Apple is coming from a design that is worse in every single way to AMD, which has been working on this for over a decade, and is attempting to topple them while they're killing it every year. Simply not comparable. Indeed, if you look at AMD's laptop chips, their performance per watt is quite superior to Apple's chips. And since then AMD has only improved.
    - threeseed 6y ago
      Amazon's ARM processors outperform AMD at similar price-points. And I would expect Apple to be significantly better at Amazon.
threeseed 6y ago
> single new product category since the Apple Watch They released the HomePod and AirPods as well as a range of new services e.g. Apple Arcade, Apple TV+, Apple News+, Apple Fitness. And we are expecting two major changes to their product offerings over the coming year or so i.e. ARM Macs and Apple Glass.
mistersquid 6y ago
> To my mind, it certainly seems as if Apple is actually organized to simply refine the innovations of its past, Apparently Apple can't even refine their own innovations without breaking their own kit and bilking their customers. To wit, iOS 14 and watchOS 7 (most recent versions) break Activity and Health GPS data and Apple recommends using iCloud backup to resolve the issue. [0] The problem is that not only is iCloud insecure (e.g. Messages) compared to local backup, it also costs money for over 5GB storage. [1] In other words, Apple has broken GPS with iOS 14 and watchOS 7 and their recommendation is to use an insecure service that will cost users more money. Such affected customers should be represented in a class action lawsuit. (I'd love for this link to get traction, but I know it's a longshot. [2]) [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211865 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211865 [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201238 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201238 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24904349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24904349
Razengan 6y ago
If nothing else, watching Apple will give you an idea of what every other company is going to do for the next few years.
andreskytt 6y ago
After a certain point, all complex organizations/systems will be exhibiting undesired emergence while desired emergence is reduced. At that point it’s all about marginal gains. Also, consider different goals. If the goal of the company is to make things work for engineers, they have shortcomings. But their goal clearly is making money and that seems to be working very well.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

robotresearcher 6y ago

> What about the fact that they haven't announced a single new product category since the Apple Watch in 2014? AirPods (2016) are pretty popular. (edit: I listed some of Apple's recent new services here, but removed since the AirPods make the point by themselves. Apologies to user optimiz3 for leaving your comment dangling.)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
optimiz3 6y ago
A credit card is a bit of a stretch. Virtually every enterprise in existence has tried to get me to sign up for their in-house card since the mid 80s.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ebg13 6y ago
  I would argue that Apple card is actually a significantly different and better experience purely by virtue of being able to cycle the number at will. I no longer have to worry about the safety of handing my card number out over the phone. I no longer have to wait for a new card if the old number gets compromised. I no longer have to deal with completely inept new card processing agents who fail to actually send the card to the right address while I'm traveling after half a dozen tries and they keep just sending the damned thing to my house which they know I'm not at.
- AlphaSite 6y ago
  I mean if you look at it in conjunction with Apple pays it’s pretty good.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    How is it any different than with any other card and Apple Pay?
- rswail 6y ago
  The innovation is that it is not actually a credit card as previously known. It can't be used manually, it is a way to get retailers to move to Chip and Contactless, which is a way to get them and their merchant acquirers to move to Apple Pay.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

travjones 6y ago

woah, big tyme hater

cageface 6y ago

To be fair the smartphone was a once in a generation event. I think Apple still has a lot of structural advantages when it comes to inventing new product categories. Coming up with another device with the same impact as the iPhone is going to be very very difficult. That said though I think their services offerings so far are underwhelming.

dathinab 6y ago

> simply refine the innovations This was always apples thing. I mean even if we go back to the apple watch. Was it a new innovation? No, not at all. Other companies had produced similar products years before, just non did put enough mony into it to refine it to the degree Apple did. Same goes for their ARM chips. They didn't invent them nor did they invent the idea of fast ARM chips. But they took and refined them over many product generations to now yield excellent results. Same for ARM laptops. Same for a lot of their software innovations. Same for there camera. Through it should be noted that for them to be able to refine thinks to that degree often some technological innovations are mixed in in-between. But that's fine, constant refinement is often more use-full then complete new innovations without refinement. Sadly sometimes the focus on what gets refined in which ways is pretty questionable. In turn refinements you can't sell as innovation get neglected. Also the developer is forced to work with Apple using apple tools so that is often neglected, too. Their is little insensitive for Apple to spend more money on things like that when this will not bring more Users or Developers to Apple. Which is short sighted IMHO given how much money Apple has.

culturestate 6y ago

> it certainly seems as if Apple is actually organized to simply refine the innovations of its past This takes innovation, too. Just because a product isn't a wholly new, virgin thing doesn't mean it isn't innovative. The A-series chips aren't products themselves, for example, but they're certainly innovations. Apple is now the best mobile processor house in the world, and it isn't particularly close - who saw that coming?

threeseed 6y ago
> Apple is now the best mobile processor house in the world Will likely be the best laptop processor in the world as well.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Very much doubtful. AMD is seriously on fire, and unless they can pull some magic I don't see that happening.
  - cromka 6y ago
    You’re using an example of an underdog suddenly topping a hegemon in the field to make a point that no other company can do that again?
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      AMD was able to topple Intel because Intel was stagnant. Apple is coming from a design that is worse in every single way to AMD, which has been working on this for over a decade, and is attempting to topple them while they're killing it every year. Simply not comparable. Indeed, if you look at AMD's laptop chips, their performance per watt is quite superior to Apple's chips. And since then AMD has only improved.
  - threeseed 6y ago
    Amazon's ARM processors outperform AMD at similar price-points. And I would expect Apple to be significantly better at Amazon.

threeseed 6y ago

> single new product category since the Apple Watch They released the HomePod and AirPods as well as a range of new services e.g. Apple Arcade, Apple TV+, Apple News+, Apple Fitness. And we are expecting two major changes to their product offerings over the coming year or so i.e. ARM Macs and Apple Glass.

mistersquid 6y ago

> To my mind, it certainly seems as if Apple is actually organized to simply refine the innovations of its past, Apparently Apple can't even refine their own innovations without breaking their own kit and bilking their customers. To wit, iOS 14 and watchOS 7 (most recent versions) break Activity and Health GPS data and Apple recommends using iCloud backup to resolve the issue. [0] The problem is that not only is iCloud insecure (e.g. Messages) compared to local backup, it also costs money for over 5GB storage. [1] In other words, Apple has broken GPS with iOS 14 and watchOS 7 and their recommendation is to use an insecure service that will cost users more money. Such affected customers should be represented in a class action lawsuit. (I'd love for this link to get traction, but I know it's a longshot. [2]) [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211865 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211865 [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201238 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201238 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24904349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24904349

Razengan 6y ago

If nothing else, watching Apple will give you an idea of what every other company is going to do for the next few years.

andreskytt 6y ago

After a certain point, all complex organizations/systems will be exhibiting undesired emergence while desired emergence is reduced. At that point it’s all about marginal gains. Also, consider different goals. If the goal of the company is to make things work for engineers, they have shortcomings. But their goal clearly is making money and that seems to be working very well.