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Also, please ignore the fact that local militias occupied the state legislature, and some were recently arrested by the FBI for a plot to kidnap the governor an

Also, please ignore the fact that local militias occupied the state legislature, and some were recently arrested by the FBI for a plot to kidnap the governor and overthrow the state government. Come to Michigan!;) Personal disclaimer: I grew up in Michigan from birth to mid teen years (in the Pacific NW now). I still have family that I love back there, but I'd need a salary offer in the top 3% income bracket of the state to consider moving back (and I'd still only rent). Michiganders are just too uptight for my sensibilities as an adult.

tjr225 6y ago
I grew up in Kalamazoo. Moved back last October due to the arrival a new child and desire to be close to family/cheap housing. Sold the house 10 months later and I’m already back in Seattle. Whatever idealized version of Michigan I had in my brain was not there when I got there. Couldn’t stand the culture, weather, or evangelicalism. It is cheap though. Not so much if you want to live anywhere remotely desireable however. Homes in our neighborhood were going for over 400k. At that price I’m going to live where I want to live instead.
- kyleblarson 6y ago
  You said you are in Seattle? And you also said that a house over 400k was expensive?
  - tjr225 6y ago
    400k is too expensive for Michigan, yeah. I’ll gladly spend more for somewhere nicer.
- gmadsen 6y ago
  Ann Arbor isn't too bad
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    Ann Arbor is a pleasant bubble, that is burst as soon as you cross I94
- refurb 6y ago
  Not sure what you're looking to buy, but $400k would get you a mansion around Kalamazoo and a 1-bedroom in Seattle. A friend lived in Portage (bottom half of K'zoo county) and had a beautiful home for $200k, great neighborhood, excellent schools.
  - tjr225 6y ago
    I’d rather live in Seattle than live in a cheap mansion in Kalamazoo. I’d rather my family live here as well. That’s the entire point of my post. There is a reason it is cheap and it is not a price I am willing to pay.
    - refurb 6y ago
      That’s fine but what neighborhood in Kalamazoo is $400k? And if $400k is too much for a house, how do you make Seattle work?
      - tjr225 6y ago
        Simply plug the numbers into Redfin or Zillow. This data is easily accessible. > And if $400k is too much for a house, how do you make Seattle work? If I’m going to have to spend this much to make Kalamazoo work I’m going to be seriously second guessing why I moved there in the first place. If I lose my remote job at the startup I worked at and suddenly am looking at making 60k a year as a windows Sysadmin at western Michigan university or Pfizer (if I’m lucky!) that house isn’t going to seem very cheap- even if my house is only 200k a year. In fact it’s going to start to seem really fucking expensive once you consider the tax implications. And yes there are cheaper neighborhoods to live in Kalamazoo. They don’t really inspire you much to want to stay there- that is unless you like guns and meth. I can afford more than 400k in Kalamazoo but that’s not the point. The point is that if I’m going to chose to spend every waking hour living somewhere; I’m going to choose a place that doesnt make me miserable.
        refurb 6y ago
        Gotcha. So basically housing prices were irrelevant, you just don’t like Kalamazoo. Which is fine. I was just trying to decipher your comments about housing.
jointpdf 6y ago
Can you elaborate on how Michiganders are uptight? I grew up there and I usually think of people here as genuinely friendly (excluding people mentioned in your first paragraph). It seems like a fairly balanced mix of cultures here overall (relative to the US on average). Now the DC area...that is an uptight place.
- atlasunshrugged 6y ago
  Why is DC uptight? I'm moving in 1.5 weeks and would love any context I can get
  - jointpdf 6y ago
    It varies and you can navigate around it by finding your niche (in small groups or one-on-one, people are more pleasant). But the ambient feeling of uptightness comes from a few things: - Guarded, anxious personalities. It’s very rare to have random conversations with people, especially without them acting uncomfortable like you have an ulterior motive. Maybe this is part of city living, but on the west coast I regularly talked to people (something as simple as: in Portland, making small talk about the weather with another guy my age was somewhat jarring for me). - People drive (and even walk) like they are the only person in the world that matters and that their head will explode if you delay them for 2 seconds. Be ready to have people aggressively tailgate you, prevent you from merging for no reason, etc. every single time you go anywhere. - Intellectual snootiness / inflated egos / overindexing on status. I think living in the center of the political universe goes to peoples’ heads. The reality is that almost everyone is a cog that is trying in vain (almost always with good intentions) to improve the world. - Conservative work/life norms. Like, people caring way too much about dress/appearances/etc. People behave like they’re being watched because, well, they probably are (so they don’t want to step out of line). Sometimes it feels like a pissing contest to see who can give off appearances of working harder (midnight emails, etc.) - Insane heat and humidity in the summer understandably makes people agitated. All that said, there are a huge number of things that are great about living there. And my views are tinted by the lens of social anxiety and the burnout I experienced there. Someone less sensitive than me may feel much differently. I hope you enjoy your new city!
jungletime 6y ago
About that plot. Don't take it too seriously. The FBI has a reputation for making hay, with fictional plots they create, and cast out nets to fish gullible people into. Budgets need justifying! And catching real terrorists is hard. Much harder than entrapping some internet idiots in a chat room. Don't take my word for it. Here's a civil rights lawyer talking about how weak that case is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POB5i3Ll9bg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POB5i3Ll9bg
- danans 6y ago
  > About that plot. Don't take it too seriously Considering that they stockpiled semiautomatic weapons in preparation for the plot, seems like it should be taken very seriously, even if their rationale (punishing the governor for closing gyms) was silly.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - m0zg 6y ago
    > stockpiled semiautomatic weapons I have a "stockpile" of "semiautomatic weapons" in a safe not 5 meters from where I sit right now. Three rifles, a shotgun, and half a dozen pistols in various calibers, plus several thousand rounds of ammo. In the US "stockpiling" doesn't count for anything.
    - danans 6y ago
      > I have a "stockpile" of "semiautomatic weapons" in a safe not 5 meters from where I sit right now. You're not plotting to kidnap an elected official with them. Pretty big difference.
      - m0zg 6y ago
        The FBI agent was "plotting". Others were just along for the ride it sounds like. This will fall apart and embarrass the FBI.

tjr225 6y ago

I grew up in Kalamazoo. Moved back last October due to the arrival a new child and desire to be close to family/cheap housing. Sold the house 10 months later and I’m already back in Seattle. Whatever idealized version of Michigan I had in my brain was not there when I got there. Couldn’t stand the culture, weather, or evangelicalism. It is cheap though. Not so much if you want to live anywhere remotely desireable however. Homes in our neighborhood were going for over 400k. At that price I’m going to live where I want to live instead.

kyleblarson 6y ago
You said you are in Seattle? And you also said that a house over 400k was expensive?
- tjr225 6y ago
  400k is too expensive for Michigan, yeah. I’ll gladly spend more for somewhere nicer.
gmadsen 6y ago
Ann Arbor isn't too bad
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  Ann Arbor is a pleasant bubble, that is burst as soon as you cross I94
refurb 6y ago
Not sure what you're looking to buy, but $400k would get you a mansion around Kalamazoo and a 1-bedroom in Seattle. A friend lived in Portage (bottom half of K'zoo county) and had a beautiful home for $200k, great neighborhood, excellent schools.
- tjr225 6y ago
  I’d rather live in Seattle than live in a cheap mansion in Kalamazoo. I’d rather my family live here as well. That’s the entire point of my post. There is a reason it is cheap and it is not a price I am willing to pay.
  - refurb 6y ago
    That’s fine but what neighborhood in Kalamazoo is $400k? And if $400k is too much for a house, how do you make Seattle work?
    - tjr225 6y ago
      Simply plug the numbers into Redfin or Zillow. This data is easily accessible. > And if $400k is too much for a house, how do you make Seattle work? If I’m going to have to spend this much to make Kalamazoo work I’m going to be seriously second guessing why I moved there in the first place. If I lose my remote job at the startup I worked at and suddenly am looking at making 60k a year as a windows Sysadmin at western Michigan university or Pfizer (if I’m lucky!) that house isn’t going to seem very cheap- even if my house is only 200k a year. In fact it’s going to start to seem really fucking expensive once you consider the tax implications. And yes there are cheaper neighborhoods to live in Kalamazoo. They don’t really inspire you much to want to stay there- that is unless you like guns and meth. I can afford more than 400k in Kalamazoo but that’s not the point. The point is that if I’m going to chose to spend every waking hour living somewhere; I’m going to choose a place that doesnt make me miserable.
      - refurb 6y ago
        Gotcha. So basically housing prices were irrelevant, you just don’t like Kalamazoo. Which is fine. I was just trying to decipher your comments about housing.

jointpdf 6y ago

Can you elaborate on how Michiganders are uptight? I grew up there and I usually think of people here as genuinely friendly (excluding people mentioned in your first paragraph). It seems like a fairly balanced mix of cultures here overall (relative to the US on average). Now the DC area...that is an uptight place.

atlasunshrugged 6y ago
Why is DC uptight? I'm moving in 1.5 weeks and would love any context I can get
- jointpdf 6y ago
  It varies and you can navigate around it by finding your niche (in small groups or one-on-one, people are more pleasant). But the ambient feeling of uptightness comes from a few things: - Guarded, anxious personalities. It’s very rare to have random conversations with people, especially without them acting uncomfortable like you have an ulterior motive. Maybe this is part of city living, but on the west coast I regularly talked to people (something as simple as: in Portland, making small talk about the weather with another guy my age was somewhat jarring for me). - People drive (and even walk) like they are the only person in the world that matters and that their head will explode if you delay them for 2 seconds. Be ready to have people aggressively tailgate you, prevent you from merging for no reason, etc. every single time you go anywhere. - Intellectual snootiness / inflated egos / overindexing on status. I think living in the center of the political universe goes to peoples’ heads. The reality is that almost everyone is a cog that is trying in vain (almost always with good intentions) to improve the world. - Conservative work/life norms. Like, people caring way too much about dress/appearances/etc. People behave like they’re being watched because, well, they probably are (so they don’t want to step out of line). Sometimes it feels like a pissing contest to see who can give off appearances of working harder (midnight emails, etc.) - Insane heat and humidity in the summer understandably makes people agitated. All that said, there are a huge number of things that are great about living there. And my views are tinted by the lens of social anxiety and the burnout I experienced there. Someone less sensitive than me may feel much differently. I hope you enjoy your new city!

jungletime 6y ago

About that plot. Don't take it too seriously. The FBI has a reputation for making hay, with fictional plots they create, and cast out nets to fish gullible people into. Budgets need justifying! And catching real terrorists is hard. Much harder than entrapping some internet idiots in a chat room. Don't take my word for it. Here's a civil rights lawyer talking about how weak that case is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POB5i3Ll9bg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POB5i3Ll9bg

danans 6y ago
> About that plot. Don't take it too seriously Considering that they stockpiled semiautomatic weapons in preparation for the plot, seems like it should be taken very seriously, even if their rationale (punishing the governor for closing gyms) was silly.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- m0zg 6y ago
  > stockpiled semiautomatic weapons I have a "stockpile" of "semiautomatic weapons" in a safe not 5 meters from where I sit right now. Three rifles, a shotgun, and half a dozen pistols in various calibers, plus several thousand rounds of ammo. In the US "stockpiling" doesn't count for anything.
  - danans 6y ago
    > I have a "stockpile" of "semiautomatic weapons" in a safe not 5 meters from where I sit right now. You're not plotting to kidnap an elected official with them. Pretty big difference.
    - m0zg 6y ago
      The FBI agent was "plotting". Others were just along for the ride it sounds like. This will fall apart and embarrass the FBI.