4 ms·

While I'm all for right to repair, repairability is a tradeoff. Everybody seems to want a razor thin phone/laptop/whatever, which makes easy repairs impossible

While I'm all for right to repair, repairability is a tradeoff. Everybody seems to want a razor thin phone/laptop/whatever, which makes easy repairs impossible, and treats them as expendable anyway. If it's out of warranty it's obsolete. The amount of labor to diagnose and replace a chip on a tightly packed motherboard sometimes exceeds the price to replace an entire motherboard.

II2II 6y ago
It is all a matter of degree. Consider what people want to repair. It is doubtful that many people would want to do chip level repairs due to the expense. People may want to replace things like keyboards and screens, which are easier to work with since they are independent modules. If people started using their devices for longer periods of times, the battery would likely be a candidate. Similarly with design. People may desire thin and light, but what is the point where no one will care or notice (short of bragging rights based upon advertising literature rather than utility)? It is also worth noting that thin and light does not imply that easy repairs are impossible. Companies may try to convince people that the interiors of our devices are bursting at the seams with sophisticated electronics, but the reality is that the screen often dictates the size while the internal PCB uses a fraction of that space. (I have seen thin phones that are screwed together, have user accessible batteries and microSD slots, and even had a snap on panel to hide all of that. Laptops aren't all that different in this respect.) Sure, they may be able to trim half a millimetre here and there by throwing repairability out the window. On the other hand, it is a high price and less of a trade-off than many will suggest.
- jojobas 6y ago
  That's all valid, but that's not what your typical consumer cares about. Even with cars, manufacturers get away with things like removing an engine to replace glow plugs. With phones and laptops, very few people care if it's repairable. That's unfortunate but it's true.
mindslight 6y ago
This is such a red herring. I've got a Galaxy S4 here that is bricked with a bootloop, due a software error on the emmc chip. I know this is the case, because someone has done the painstaking work of investigating the bug on the S3, and hacking up a reverse engineered fix. I'm guessing it would take a week to retrace their steps on my model. Meanwhile if these devices were well documented by the manufacturers, it would be an easy no-solder repair. Given both the complexity and the shoddy engineering of modern software/firmware, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of "hardware" problems are similar.
- jojobas 6y ago
  What is a red herring? It's just not perceived by the public to be an issue. If it was, it would be legislated just like car manufacturers are forced to carry parts for a number of years for every produced car.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    The narrative that "razor thin" devices preclude repair. If I had the manufacturer's documentation, the problem with my S4 could likely be fixed with just a USB cable. Its physical form has nothing to do with its general lack of repairability.
    - jojobas 6y ago
      They don't preclude repair but definitely make it harder to make modular, user serviceable devices. Software repair is a different story of course, but it's another double-edged sword- you wouldn't like your phone's memory to be fully accessible with just a USB cable. I can't imagine a mechanism that would only allow USB tampering only if the phone is malfunctioning.
      - freeone3000 6y ago
        Your phone's memory effectively is fully accessible with just a USB cable. I am unaware of any android phone which actually verifies the signature on its bootloader - run `adb fastboot flash` and you can load arbitrary ROMs onto arbitrary chips. The contents of the ROMs is what's secret.
beervirus 6y ago
> Everybody seems to want a razor thin phone/laptop/whatever Do they? I'd be much happier with a phone that was a little thicker and had a bigger and/or replaceable battery. Apple just doesn't want to sell me that.

II2II 6y ago

It is all a matter of degree. Consider what people want to repair. It is doubtful that many people would want to do chip level repairs due to the expense. People may want to replace things like keyboards and screens, which are easier to work with since they are independent modules. If people started using their devices for longer periods of times, the battery would likely be a candidate. Similarly with design. People may desire thin and light, but what is the point where no one will care or notice (short of bragging rights based upon advertising literature rather than utility)? It is also worth noting that thin and light does not imply that easy repairs are impossible. Companies may try to convince people that the interiors of our devices are bursting at the seams with sophisticated electronics, but the reality is that the screen often dictates the size while the internal PCB uses a fraction of that space. (I have seen thin phones that are screwed together, have user accessible batteries and microSD slots, and even had a snap on panel to hide all of that. Laptops aren't all that different in this respect.) Sure, they may be able to trim half a millimetre here and there by throwing repairability out the window. On the other hand, it is a high price and less of a trade-off than many will suggest.

jojobas 6y ago
That's all valid, but that's not what your typical consumer cares about. Even with cars, manufacturers get away with things like removing an engine to replace glow plugs. With phones and laptops, very few people care if it's repairable. That's unfortunate but it's true.

mindslight 6y ago

This is such a red herring. I've got a Galaxy S4 here that is bricked with a bootloop, due a software error on the emmc chip. I know this is the case, because someone has done the painstaking work of investigating the bug on the S3, and hacking up a reverse engineered fix. I'm guessing it would take a week to retrace their steps on my model. Meanwhile if these devices were well documented by the manufacturers, it would be an easy no-solder repair. Given both the complexity and the shoddy engineering of modern software/firmware, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of "hardware" problems are similar.

jojobas 6y ago
What is a red herring? It's just not perceived by the public to be an issue. If it was, it would be legislated just like car manufacturers are forced to carry parts for a number of years for every produced car.
- mindslight 6y ago
  The narrative that "razor thin" devices preclude repair. If I had the manufacturer's documentation, the problem with my S4 could likely be fixed with just a USB cable. Its physical form has nothing to do with its general lack of repairability.
  - jojobas 6y ago
    They don't preclude repair but definitely make it harder to make modular, user serviceable devices. Software repair is a different story of course, but it's another double-edged sword- you wouldn't like your phone's memory to be fully accessible with just a USB cable. I can't imagine a mechanism that would only allow USB tampering only if the phone is malfunctioning.
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      Your phone's memory effectively is fully accessible with just a USB cable. I am unaware of any android phone which actually verifies the signature on its bootloader - run `adb fastboot flash` and you can load arbitrary ROMs onto arbitrary chips. The contents of the ROMs is what's secret.

beervirus 6y ago

> Everybody seems to want a razor thin phone/laptop/whatever Do they? I'd be much happier with a phone that was a little thicker and had a bigger and/or replaceable battery. Apple just doesn't want to sell me that.