4 ms·

> Obviously living in London is not like living in some police state. In recent years, the police in London had a policy to harass anyone who was seen using a

> Obviously living in London is not like living in some police state. In recent years, the police in London had a policy to harass anyone who was seen using a camera in a large, but completely unpublished, geofenced region of the city. That's not US/China/Saudi-level police state bad--as in, the UK police aren't able to arbitrarily confiscate cash or shoot people with impunity for having the wrong skin color--but it's bad enough that I consider such behavior a feature of a police state. Any jurisdiction where it's not possible to perform the normal functions of everyday life, including creating works of art through photography, without fear of hostile police interaction is to some degree or other a police state.

Symbiote 6y ago
Is that this case, from 10 years ago? https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/dec/15/yates-police-terrorism-powers-photography https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/dec/15/yates-police-terr...
qz2 6y ago
I've had a couple of run-on this front. I spent a couple of years photographing industrial landscapes in London. Unless you are trespassing then you can tell them to hop it. Being arrested wrongfully is quite profitable for the receiver of the arrest and they are usually intimidated by reminding them of that in return.
- bigiain 6y ago
  > and they are usually intimidated by reminding them of that Would I be wrong to assume you say that from a position of middle class white privilege? (A position I also hold, but from which I have significant empathy with those who do not.) I'm guessing intimidating police by reminding them of the laws they're supposed to uphold works a lot less well for young black kids.
  - qz2 6y ago
    Yes on both counts. The latter is a travesty and a very real problem.
  - wolco2 6y ago
    I don't think it works well for any race in North America. Unless you are the mayor or some powerful police union boss I see a local beatdown occuring and/or finding a reason for a charge.
  - peteretep 6y ago
    The police in the UK are exceptionally unlikely to shoot you, whatever your colour, leaving you free to pursue your wrongful arrest case with a side-order of claiming it was racially motivated via either (mostly) free legal aid or a number of specialist no-win-no-fee lawyers.
  - DharmaPolice 6y ago
    >I'm guessing intimidating police by reminding them of the laws they're supposed to uphold works a lot less well for young black kids. Undoubtedly, but there is a power in knowing what and how to say something. I've been arrested and had to sit with three other unrelated individuals for a while, as we waited to be processed. We were all white but I really felt the treatment I received was significantly better than my two fellow arrestees and that was entirely down to not sounding...well, like an idiot. Even asking to read the Police "Codes of Practice" - which is offered automatically - was met with unease (and slight embarrassment) because it's apparently rare for people to say yes to that and they didn't have it to hand immediately. You can call this a class benefit but I certainly wasn't dressed in a middle class manner (which is possibly why I was stopped initially) and my accent is fairly typical for South East London.
    - bigiain 6y ago
      Yeah, I'm a motorcycle sports bike rider, so the police are my <David Attenborough voice>natural enemy... It's kinda well known amongst my riding peers that some people "fail the attitude test" and end up way worse off than people who're at least polite and businesslike when pulled over. I've rarely "talked my way out of a ticket", but I've watched people talk themselves into 3 or 4 serious tickets where they could have "settled" for just the one relatively minor they deserved. (I _did_ managed to escape without a ticket in San Francisco once, doing 100mph past a cop car on the Bay Bridge on a borrowed noisy piped Honda VTR1000 with a girl on the back wearing a blindingly white pure muppet fur jacket and a big fluffy glow-in-the-dark tule tutu. The cop car didn't trigger my normally well honed "cop radar" because in my head it was just a "movie cop car", not a real Australian Ford/Holden mortal enemy carrying sedan with our local highway patrol markings, so I just kinda obliviously cruised past him in fairly light 2am traffic into town. He light up his disco lights so I pulled over at the nearest exit, pulled my helmet off to reveal a grey-beard most likely older than his dad, and said in my broadest and fairly exaggerated Aussie accent "G'Day mate!" and told him "I was only doing about 100!" to which he said "Miles, you're not driving in kilometres now", and let me go with a warning to "ride safe, OK?" Pretty sure that was part middle aged white privilege combined with "way too much paperwork booking an Australian", with a little but of "Australians? We _love_ you guys!" cultural luck thrown in for good measure... But I'll take that rare win against them :-) )

Symbiote 6y ago

Is that this case, from 10 years ago? https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/dec/15/yates-police-terrorism-powers-photography https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/dec/15/yates-police-terr...

qz2 6y ago

I've had a couple of run-on this front. I spent a couple of years photographing industrial landscapes in London. Unless you are trespassing then you can tell them to hop it. Being arrested wrongfully is quite profitable for the receiver of the arrest and they are usually intimidated by reminding them of that in return.

bigiain 6y ago
> and they are usually intimidated by reminding them of that Would I be wrong to assume you say that from a position of middle class white privilege? (A position I also hold, but from which I have significant empathy with those who do not.) I'm guessing intimidating police by reminding them of the laws they're supposed to uphold works a lot less well for young black kids.
- qz2 6y ago
  Yes on both counts. The latter is a travesty and a very real problem.
- wolco2 6y ago
  I don't think it works well for any race in North America. Unless you are the mayor or some powerful police union boss I see a local beatdown occuring and/or finding a reason for a charge.
- peteretep 6y ago
  The police in the UK are exceptionally unlikely to shoot you, whatever your colour, leaving you free to pursue your wrongful arrest case with a side-order of claiming it was racially motivated via either (mostly) free legal aid or a number of specialist no-win-no-fee lawyers.
- DharmaPolice 6y ago
  >I'm guessing intimidating police by reminding them of the laws they're supposed to uphold works a lot less well for young black kids. Undoubtedly, but there is a power in knowing what and how to say something. I've been arrested and had to sit with three other unrelated individuals for a while, as we waited to be processed. We were all white but I really felt the treatment I received was significantly better than my two fellow arrestees and that was entirely down to not sounding...well, like an idiot. Even asking to read the Police "Codes of Practice" - which is offered automatically - was met with unease (and slight embarrassment) because it's apparently rare for people to say yes to that and they didn't have it to hand immediately. You can call this a class benefit but I certainly wasn't dressed in a middle class manner (which is possibly why I was stopped initially) and my accent is fairly typical for South East London.
  - bigiain 6y ago
    Yeah, I'm a motorcycle sports bike rider, so the police are my <David Attenborough voice>natural enemy... It's kinda well known amongst my riding peers that some people "fail the attitude test" and end up way worse off than people who're at least polite and businesslike when pulled over. I've rarely "talked my way out of a ticket", but I've watched people talk themselves into 3 or 4 serious tickets where they could have "settled" for just the one relatively minor they deserved. (I _did_ managed to escape without a ticket in San Francisco once, doing 100mph past a cop car on the Bay Bridge on a borrowed noisy piped Honda VTR1000 with a girl on the back wearing a blindingly white pure muppet fur jacket and a big fluffy glow-in-the-dark tule tutu. The cop car didn't trigger my normally well honed "cop radar" because in my head it was just a "movie cop car", not a real Australian Ford/Holden mortal enemy carrying sedan with our local highway patrol markings, so I just kinda obliviously cruised past him in fairly light 2am traffic into town. He light up his disco lights so I pulled over at the nearest exit, pulled my helmet off to reveal a grey-beard most likely older than his dad, and said in my broadest and fairly exaggerated Aussie accent "G'Day mate!" and told him "I was only doing about 100!" to which he said "Miles, you're not driving in kilometres now", and let me go with a warning to "ride safe, OK?" Pretty sure that was part middle aged white privilege combined with "way too much paperwork booking an Australian", with a little but of "Australians? We _love_ you guys!" cultural luck thrown in for good measure... But I'll take that rare win against them :-) )