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Disillusionment was a crucible for my career. I went through it and wouldn't have it any other way. On the other side of it you attain focus on what is valuable

Disillusionment was a crucible for my career. I went through it and wouldn't have it any other way. On the other side of it you attain focus on what is valuable to you, which is singularly useful for evaluating subsequent jobs. However, the crucible for me consisted of: depression, burnout, tendonitis. It sucked. From that, I decided I'd never do webdev again, including so-called backend. The web as a medium is not where I'm supposed to be. I can't stand the culture, the churn, the faux openness, the re-invention of things that already exist. I don't care. In fact, I'd rather do another job entirely than webdev. And I considered that for a long while. I took a long, winding journey away from software and eventually back into it, through things like LLVM, Haskell, Rust. Slowly, I began to discover people with whom I shared a technical aesthetic actually existed, and were much smarter/capable than I was. This was humbling and exciting, as it started to paint a picture of what I wanted to work toward. One priceless realization: the people with the technical career I wanted weren't the ones always featured on HN or elsewhere. HN's startup focus tends to suck all the air out of the room of other interesting domains. Professionally, I started seriously investigating domains that weren't web/data-related. (I also decided I wouldn't tell anyone about this, because Smart People like to say things like, "but then what job would you get? Every job is a web job, Jeff Atwood even said so!!!") I'm doing quite fine now. Focus, in both the moment-to-moment attention and long-term vision sense, is a superpower. Without disillusionment, I don't think I'd have it.

layoric 6y ago
I’ve recently come to a similar conclusion around “Focus” being something in short supply in most workplaces and no matter how often I point out its power (with examples), people push to solve 3-5 large scale problems concurrently. I’m not sure where I’ll find more focused environment but I’m sure I want little todo with the constant “hustle” mentality.
- mattgreenrocks 6y ago
  Some people prefer the feeing of being busy to actually shipping things.
grep_name 6y ago
I feel similarly but pretty much knew by the end of college that I wasn't interested in the typical web dev roles. I wound up in database development for my last couple jobs and now have ended up in charge of a lot of systems I built myself that interact with those databases and serve as the backend (and pseudo-frontend?) for all kinds of integrations for a small manufacturing company. I'm not really well compensated for my work, but am somewhat paralyzed by the fact that I just don't know what to look for in a job anymore. I considered looking for a devops role in a company that prioritizes ownership of their systems (i.e. implementation of their own pipelines on their own metal rather than aws or similar), but it seems like the likelihood of finding a company like that which also values good infrastructure practices is pretty unlikely. I find that when I ask about whether finding such a role is realistic in chat rooms or forums about devops work the responses range from confused to derisive. Did you find the crowd that resonated with your sentiments through contributions to open source? I've been thinking about looking into open source meetups in my area as a way of expanding my understanding of what I want to do.
- mattgreenrocks 6y ago
  > I find that when I ask about whether finding such a role is realistic in chat rooms or forums about devops work the responses range from confused to derisive. That's interesting. Conflicts of values like those can be deep and hard to reconcile. It becomes a sort of paper cut you can't quite get away from, because everyone's too invested in perpetuating the status quo. I have to imagine there are companies that care about that, however. (There have to be those that aren't magnets for the hyper-competitive, too.) > Did you find the crowd that resonated with your sentiments through contributions to open source? A bit. I had a nice side quest through OSS, where I learned a lot about shipping, customers (e.g. users), and using it as a way to try out other domains/technologies. Ultimately, it was more something to help me pivot than a place to stay, mostly because I need to make money. But I am grateful for those that build those communities.
jventura 6y ago
> I'm doing quite fine now. You got my curiosity! Can I ask you in which field are you working on?
- mattgreenrocks 6y ago
  Sure. I still do software, though more of a R&D sense. Lately I've been doing a lot of different things: compiler passes, along with all sorts of static/dynamic analysis. Lots of fun!
the_cat_kittles 6y ago
as a web dev, i have disdain for just about every venture that i work for, and my goal is to exert as little energy as possible. i actually think this is healthier than trying to pretend like you care about the product. i make sure that i am not actively worsening inequality or destroying the climate when choosing where to work. but i have no illusions that my work is anything other than just a (hopefully failed) attempt by my employer to make themselves richer. i say hopefully because i think the distribution of resources is already too lopsided here in america. i am somewhat conflicted about if this means i should stop working in this field altogether. i am generally quite effective and seem to deliver what whomever is writing my checks wants, and the checks are pretty decent. but i guess i have to, in a broad sense, bite my tongue and pretend that the product is not stupid. whereas in my younger days, i think i staked some of my ego on my ability, or perception thereof, now i am mostly indifferent to criticism from people who have no idea what they are talking about, and criticism from peers is actually enjoyable because i can learn something. i guess i am about as detached from my job as i can be, mentally. if this were all i did i think it would be really bad for me. but i am a musician and over the last year or two, starting to lay the foundation of an electronics recycling plant. so those two things are both very meaningful to me and fill the hole. but sometimes i worry a little bit about how stupid i think what i do for the majority of my money is.

layoric 6y ago

I’ve recently come to a similar conclusion around “Focus” being something in short supply in most workplaces and no matter how often I point out its power (with examples), people push to solve 3-5 large scale problems concurrently. I’m not sure where I’ll find more focused environment but I’m sure I want little todo with the constant “hustle” mentality.

mattgreenrocks 6y ago
Some people prefer the feeing of being busy to actually shipping things.

grep_name 6y ago

I feel similarly but pretty much knew by the end of college that I wasn't interested in the typical web dev roles. I wound up in database development for my last couple jobs and now have ended up in charge of a lot of systems I built myself that interact with those databases and serve as the backend (and pseudo-frontend?) for all kinds of integrations for a small manufacturing company. I'm not really well compensated for my work, but am somewhat paralyzed by the fact that I just don't know what to look for in a job anymore. I considered looking for a devops role in a company that prioritizes ownership of their systems (i.e. implementation of their own pipelines on their own metal rather than aws or similar), but it seems like the likelihood of finding a company like that which also values good infrastructure practices is pretty unlikely. I find that when I ask about whether finding such a role is realistic in chat rooms or forums about devops work the responses range from confused to derisive. Did you find the crowd that resonated with your sentiments through contributions to open source? I've been thinking about looking into open source meetups in my area as a way of expanding my understanding of what I want to do.

mattgreenrocks 6y ago
> I find that when I ask about whether finding such a role is realistic in chat rooms or forums about devops work the responses range from confused to derisive. That's interesting. Conflicts of values like those can be deep and hard to reconcile. It becomes a sort of paper cut you can't quite get away from, because everyone's too invested in perpetuating the status quo. I have to imagine there are companies that care about that, however. (There have to be those that aren't magnets for the hyper-competitive, too.) > Did you find the crowd that resonated with your sentiments through contributions to open source? A bit. I had a nice side quest through OSS, where I learned a lot about shipping, customers (e.g. users), and using it as a way to try out other domains/technologies. Ultimately, it was more something to help me pivot than a place to stay, mostly because I need to make money. But I am grateful for those that build those communities.

jventura 6y ago

> I'm doing quite fine now. You got my curiosity! Can I ask you in which field are you working on?

mattgreenrocks 6y ago
Sure. I still do software, though more of a R&D sense. Lately I've been doing a lot of different things: compiler passes, along with all sorts of static/dynamic analysis. Lots of fun!

the_cat_kittles 6y ago

as a web dev, i have disdain for just about every venture that i work for, and my goal is to exert as little energy as possible. i actually think this is healthier than trying to pretend like you care about the product. i make sure that i am not actively worsening inequality or destroying the climate when choosing where to work. but i have no illusions that my work is anything other than just a (hopefully failed) attempt by my employer to make themselves richer. i say hopefully because i think the distribution of resources is already too lopsided here in america. i am somewhat conflicted about if this means i should stop working in this field altogether. i am generally quite effective and seem to deliver what whomever is writing my checks wants, and the checks are pretty decent. but i guess i have to, in a broad sense, bite my tongue and pretend that the product is not stupid. whereas in my younger days, i think i staked some of my ego on my ability, or perception thereof, now i am mostly indifferent to criticism from people who have no idea what they are talking about, and criticism from peers is actually enjoyable because i can learn something. i guess i am about as detached from my job as i can be, mentally. if this were all i did i think it would be really bad for me. but i am a musician and over the last year or two, starting to lay the foundation of an electronics recycling plant. so those two things are both very meaningful to me and fill the hole. but sometimes i worry a little bit about how stupid i think what i do for the majority of my money is.