4 ms·

Worth noting that credit card processors do take on credit risk, which for "normal people" is, sure, basically negligible. But black swan events (covid, for exa

Worth noting that credit card processors do take on credit risk, which for "normal people" is, sure, basically negligible. But black swan events (covid, for example) and fraud attacks (card cashers etc etc) are major issues. This might be mitigated by the dominant form of payments in the regulated marks you mentioned being debit cards, which in some ways flips the equation on risk around. However, this might not sit well with consumers. Lots of people in the US like credit cards because of the substantially superior risk profile they present (to the cardholder).

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
> Lots of people in the US like credit cards because of the substantially superior risk profile they present (to the cardholder). How so? Fraud liability?
- cashewchoo 6y ago
  And headache. If there's fraud in your debit account, it's a big problem for you because the USD that got stolen were yours. That's less money you can now write a check for. Versus with a credit card, the money that got spent is only barely yours. Sure you're gonna have to dispute it etc but if it comes to it, you could always just let the account sit with a balance while a protracted dispute process works through.
toomuchtodo 6y ago
Let merchants charge customers the credit transaction fee as a surcharge [1] [2], and let consumers pay to receive the benefits if they so desire. Everyone else can use debit cards now, and instant payments when they arrive in 2023-2024 [3] [4]. If it's transaction insurance customers demand, let them vote with their dollars (versus mandating everyone pay it as a transaction tax). [1] https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/surcharging-faq-by-merchants.pdf https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/surcharging... [2] https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/business/overview/support/merchant-surcharge-rules.html https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/business/overview/support/me... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24103753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24103753 [4] https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/other20200806a.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/othe...
stefan_ 6y ago
If card processors cared about fraud they would have rolled out chip & pin 20 years ago. They don't and the fees aren't that high because of it. The fees are so high for the profit and the stupid minigames that trick americans into having a wallet full of plastic cards for "savings" and "cashback".
- prostoalex 6y ago
  Is chip & PIN a worthwhile investment into security, considering the growing number of online transactions?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago

> Lots of people in the US like credit cards because of the substantially superior risk profile they present (to the cardholder). How so? Fraud liability?

cashewchoo 6y ago
And headache. If there's fraud in your debit account, it's a big problem for you because the USD that got stolen were yours. That's less money you can now write a check for. Versus with a credit card, the money that got spent is only barely yours. Sure you're gonna have to dispute it etc but if it comes to it, you could always just let the account sit with a balance while a protracted dispute process works through.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Let merchants charge customers the credit transaction fee as a surcharge [1] [2], and let consumers pay to receive the benefits if they so desire. Everyone else can use debit cards now, and instant payments when they arrive in 2023-2024 [3] [4]. If it's transaction insurance customers demand, let them vote with their dollars (versus mandating everyone pay it as a transaction tax). [1] https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/surcharging-faq-by-merchants.pdf https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/surcharging... [2] https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/business/overview/support/merchant-surcharge-rules.html https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/business/overview/support/me... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24103753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24103753 [4] https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/other20200806a.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/othe...

stefan_ 6y ago

If card processors cared about fraud they would have rolled out chip & pin 20 years ago. They don't and the fees aren't that high because of it. The fees are so high for the profit and the stupid minigames that trick americans into having a wallet full of plastic cards for "savings" and "cashback".

prostoalex 6y ago
Is chip & PIN a worthwhile investment into security, considering the growing number of online transactions?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]