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> The entire idea behind credit cards is to force processing fees upon store owners. No. As a consumer, I enjoy immense value by carrying around zero cash. In

> The entire idea behind credit cards is to force processing fees upon store owners. No. As a consumer, I enjoy immense value by carrying around zero cash. In fact, I don't even carry around physical cards (thank you Apple/Google Pay).

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
What is this 'immense value'?
- remus 6y ago
  Not carting a pocketful of loose change round your entire life. Not an issue for some people, but I really like carrying less stuff.
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    Loose change is both heavy and worthless. You can carry cash around without bothering with loose change.
    - yourapostasy 6y ago
      A very privileged perspective. Most of the world still counts their pennies, and the surcharges on non-cash monetary transactions make a sizeable, noticeable dent if pointed out to them. It's a tough balance they have to navigate. Though I'm extremely privileged now myself, I'm not so far removed that I have forgotten those days when down-to-the-penny accounting mattered. In the US at least, if you had the right education (which sadly many lack), you can live amazingly inexpensively by forgoing many societal conventions and expectations.
- the_jeremy 6y ago
  less hassle, enhanced security. I can spend hundreds of dollars without having to carry that much cash on me, or having to go to an ATM ever. It's more convenient and more secure, which is almost never true today.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    Is cash that hard?
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      Yeah, I carry around a grand on me usually (for drugs and stuff) and it's really bulky. Then you've got the denomination issues.
      - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        If you take the speed you've just bought everything will be less tiring.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        renewiltord 6y ago
        This is true, but the deleterious effects are fairly significant.
  - graham_paul 6y ago
    I would not necessarily call it enhanced security if you are using Android and your phone is not one of the latest models. Plus of course someone can just steal your phone, force you unlock it and steal more than they could ever steal from you if you only had cash. Your enhanced security is a box containing more money than you can carry. This box can (most of the times) only be opened with a key but this key is always with you. So whoever steals your force will just force you to open the box
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      Sure, if someone specifically wants my money, but that is unlikely in a Bayesian sense. And the bank will interrupt in any case because of anti-structuring and max-spend limits. You don't have to outrun the bear.
graham_paul 6y ago
You are paying a price for that. The second someone steals your phone, you lose it, drop in into water or your battery runs off, you are temporarily poor and if you might find yourself in trouble if you can't get somewhere where you can charge your phone
- asutekku 6y ago
  The second someone steals my cash i don’t have it anymore. If someone steals my phone, it is locked and the money attributed to it are safe. Sure, i may have lost my phone but my money is safe.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    Of interest, and I really don't know as I've never had a smartphone, if your phone is stolen, what stops it being used to pay for something? The point of the convenience was - I thought - that you just swipe. Couldn't a thief? Also how do you do anything if your phone is gone - travel, call, let the bank know, buy a new phone, let your partner know you're in trouble, anything? Also how much is you phone worth? A quick look suggests ~£1000 for an iphone 11, although I guess that's needlessly high, but you're carrying a large cash equivalent, highly attractive? I've never had £500 or the equivalent in my pocket, ever (max ~£350 for 1/2 hour IIRC). And cash doesn't break if you sit on it. I'm not entirely convinced of your case quite yet.
    - detaro 6y ago
      You need to unlock the phone to pay with it.
      - graham_paul 6y ago
        You will just unlock it at the thief's request
  - graham_paul 6y ago
    If someone steals your cash (as much cash as you can carry): you don't have it anymore. If someone steals your phone (you will lose at least the value you paid for the phone) and once they force you to unlock the phone and to hand over the passwords, you will lose: - as much cash as they can take out before you can access a device that will allow you to freeze the card you will also be a more attractive target for hacking (especially if you are using Android and your phone is like the vast majority of targets that receives security updates very late or it simply does not receive them) Seen it happen more than once. Yes, you are smart but so are thiefs
mgkimsal 6y ago
that does not contradict or invalidate that the idea behind them was/is to force processing fees on merchants. whatever benefits you may or may not enjoy are unrelated to the purpose behind cards being offered.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

What is this 'immense value'?

remus 6y ago
Not carting a pocketful of loose change round your entire life. Not an issue for some people, but I really like carrying less stuff.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  Loose change is both heavy and worthless. You can carry cash around without bothering with loose change.
  - yourapostasy 6y ago
    A very privileged perspective. Most of the world still counts their pennies, and the surcharges on non-cash monetary transactions make a sizeable, noticeable dent if pointed out to them. It's a tough balance they have to navigate. Though I'm extremely privileged now myself, I'm not so far removed that I have forgotten those days when down-to-the-penny accounting mattered. In the US at least, if you had the right education (which sadly many lack), you can live amazingly inexpensively by forgoing many societal conventions and expectations.
the_jeremy 6y ago
less hassle, enhanced security. I can spend hundreds of dollars without having to carry that much cash on me, or having to go to an ATM ever. It's more convenient and more secure, which is almost never true today.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  Is cash that hard?
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Yeah, I carry around a grand on me usually (for drugs and stuff) and it's really bulky. Then you've got the denomination issues.
    - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
      If you take the speed you've just bought everything will be less tiring.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - renewiltord 6y ago
        This is true, but the deleterious effects are fairly significant.
- graham_paul 6y ago
  I would not necessarily call it enhanced security if you are using Android and your phone is not one of the latest models. Plus of course someone can just steal your phone, force you unlock it and steal more than they could ever steal from you if you only had cash. Your enhanced security is a box containing more money than you can carry. This box can (most of the times) only be opened with a key but this key is always with you. So whoever steals your force will just force you to open the box
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Sure, if someone specifically wants my money, but that is unlikely in a Bayesian sense. And the bank will interrupt in any case because of anti-structuring and max-spend limits. You don't have to outrun the bear.

graham_paul 6y ago

You are paying a price for that. The second someone steals your phone, you lose it, drop in into water or your battery runs off, you are temporarily poor and if you might find yourself in trouble if you can't get somewhere where you can charge your phone

asutekku 6y ago
The second someone steals my cash i don’t have it anymore. If someone steals my phone, it is locked and the money attributed to it are safe. Sure, i may have lost my phone but my money is safe.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  Of interest, and I really don't know as I've never had a smartphone, if your phone is stolen, what stops it being used to pay for something? The point of the convenience was - I thought - that you just swipe. Couldn't a thief? Also how do you do anything if your phone is gone - travel, call, let the bank know, buy a new phone, let your partner know you're in trouble, anything? Also how much is you phone worth? A quick look suggests ~£1000 for an iphone 11, although I guess that's needlessly high, but you're carrying a large cash equivalent, highly attractive? I've never had £500 or the equivalent in my pocket, ever (max ~£350 for 1/2 hour IIRC). And cash doesn't break if you sit on it. I'm not entirely convinced of your case quite yet.
  - detaro 6y ago
    You need to unlock the phone to pay with it.
    - graham_paul 6y ago
      You will just unlock it at the thief's request
- graham_paul 6y ago
  If someone steals your cash (as much cash as you can carry): you don't have it anymore. If someone steals your phone (you will lose at least the value you paid for the phone) and once they force you to unlock the phone and to hand over the passwords, you will lose: - as much cash as they can take out before you can access a device that will allow you to freeze the card you will also be a more attractive target for hacking (especially if you are using Android and your phone is like the vast majority of targets that receives security updates very late or it simply does not receive them) Seen it happen more than once. Yes, you are smart but so are thiefs

mgkimsal 6y ago

that does not contradict or invalidate that the idea behind them was/is to force processing fees on merchants. whatever benefits you may or may not enjoy are unrelated to the purpose behind cards being offered.