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I'm curious how culture wars have impacted your work and family life. I've lived most of my life in large metro areas, so from my perspective "culture wars" are

I'm curious how culture wars have impacted your work and family life. I've lived most of my life in large metro areas, so from my perspective "culture wars" are mostly people in far away towns waving fists at us city folk. The actual impact on my life is minimal.

stale2002 6y ago
The way that this usually effects people's personal lifes, is when there are individuals who care way to much about abstract politics, turn it into a moral cursade, and think that if you don't agree with them on every single issue then this is some huge judgment on you as a person. Basically, it is with us or against us mentality. Even not having an opinion on some abstract idea, means that you are therefore a perpetrator of this moral wrong. Not caring about politics is often the worst sin that you can commit to those people, no matter what other actions you have taken in your personal life regarding them or the community. This is less common in person, and more common with individuals who have arguments with their "friends" on Facebook and the like. Anyone who makes a post like "If you don't agree with me on X, then unfriend me, as I don't want any people like you in my life!"
- gsk22 6y ago
  Apathy and centrism are friends of evil governance everywhere. To quote Howard Zinn (even if you disagree with his politics - it applies to both sides of the aisle): "You can't be neutral on a moving train. Events are already moving in certain deadly directions, and to be neutral means to accept that." Being "above" politics is not a virtue when the politics in question are harmful - thus, the "moral crusade".
  - monoideism 6y ago
    Ok, fine if hold that viewpoint, but don't gaslight us that nothing new is going on. Politics has invaded everything, and it wasn't like this even 10 years ago.
    - gsk22 6y ago
      Disagreeing with your assessment is not gaslighting. I do agree America is more politicized now, but that doesn't mean the answer is to retreat into a shell and pretend the issues don't exist.
      - monoideism 6y ago
        > I do agree America is more politicized now, OK, then please don't play this "what culture war?", as if you have no idea what we're talking about. That's debating in bad faith. I'd not do that to you.
        gsk22 6y ago
        Honestly, I don't know what you're on about. The term "culture war" is extremely vague and with an obvious negative connotation, but as far as I can tell you're simply complaining that politics are more visible in everyday life. Can you succinctly define what makes a "culture war", and how that is different from political debate?
        monoideism 6y ago
        OK, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war#Broadening_of_the_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war#Broadening_of_the_... Specifically, stuff like QAnon, facemask protests, BLM, trans rights, "white privilege", anthem protests, etc etc etc. There's pretty widespread recognition in the US of culture war flashpoints. But before I engage anymore: are you American? Because we're discussing these political topics in the US context in this thread, explicitly.
        gsk22 6y ago
        I am American, which is why I was asking. I just don't understand how "culture war" is any different than "political disagreement over social issues". Why do we need a scary new term?
- standardUser 6y ago
  "If you don't agree with me on X, then unfriend me, as I don't want any people like you in my life!" Most of those comments I have seen are specifically related to racism. For example, an individual will state that "if you don't support Black lives, unfriend me". I fail to find fault with that. Can you explain why it is problematic for someone to want to distance themselves socially from people that are opting-in to oppose a modern civil rights movement? I would certainly do the same with anyone who opposed the right of Women to vote, or gay people to marry.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    The amplification of identity through the capitalization of Black and Women is dangerous, tribal, and counterproductive in a collaborative environment. Plus, the phrase "if you don't support Black lives" is in the context of the Black Lives Matter movement, a group who has led riots all throughout the country. I'm not saying they didn't do so for a good reason. I'm saying it's not black-or-white, yet people who make such posts make it black-or-white.
monoideism 6y ago
You live in a large metro area where beliefs are fairly uniform. It would be understandable if you share those beliefs that you wouldn't have any disagreements, right? And I'm not sharing with HN the details of my family and workplace discussions, sorry. But maybe someone else here will be willing to. If you don't believe me, then that's OK, that's up to you. Edit: I mean, the media even covers the near constant revolts of activist employees at Facebook, Twitter, Coinbase, and many other tech companies. Do you want me to find you some articles? Is this new to you?
- standardUser 6y ago
  "If you don't believe me, then that's OK, that's up to you." I didn't say, suggest or imply that I didn't believe you. I stated my alternative experience and asked for more information about yours. "the media even covers the near constant revolts of activist employees" From what I see, those are arguments between people who believe in Thing A very strongly and want to act on it and people who also believe in Thing A but would rather not make a huge fuss about it. But the number of people who don't believe Thing A, in the extremely diverse and heavily populated areas I have lived in, are very tiny. For example, I almost never encounter people who think we should censor sex more, or ban abortion, or not fight racism or oppose police oppression, or that we should in any way oppose LGBTQ rights, or enforce religious ideology on the public sphere, etc.
  - nikitaga 6y ago
    Step 1: "if you don't support Black lives, unfriend me" (a sentiment you agree with, from your other comment in this thread) Step 2: "I almost never encounter people who think we should [...] not fight racism" You're free to exclude anyone you don't like from your friends – it's your life. But if you do this, maybe don't use the fact that your bubble doesn't have anyone who thinks differently from you as evidence of there being very few people out there who disagree with you on such things?
    - standardUser 6y ago
      My so-called "bubble" includes dozens of uniquely massive metros that represent hundreds of millions of people. They drive, and historically have driven, most advances in art, culture, innovation and economic output. So it's not like I'm living in some remote backwater getting my news from obscure blogs. I'm up in the mix. As far as the current movement that aims to of change policy and perspectives to better protect and respect Black lives, I would point out that the supporting any given civil right movement, at any time in any culture, when viewed from a few decades distance, has a nearly flawless track record. Can you name a couple historic movements that had the goal of expanding rights or ending oppression that you, today, would oppose?

stale2002 6y ago

The way that this usually effects people's personal lifes, is when there are individuals who care way to much about abstract politics, turn it into a moral cursade, and think that if you don't agree with them on every single issue then this is some huge judgment on you as a person. Basically, it is with us or against us mentality. Even not having an opinion on some abstract idea, means that you are therefore a perpetrator of this moral wrong. Not caring about politics is often the worst sin that you can commit to those people, no matter what other actions you have taken in your personal life regarding them or the community. This is less common in person, and more common with individuals who have arguments with their "friends" on Facebook and the like. Anyone who makes a post like "If you don't agree with me on X, then unfriend me, as I don't want any people like you in my life!"

gsk22 6y ago
Apathy and centrism are friends of evil governance everywhere. To quote Howard Zinn (even if you disagree with his politics - it applies to both sides of the aisle): "You can't be neutral on a moving train. Events are already moving in certain deadly directions, and to be neutral means to accept that." Being "above" politics is not a virtue when the politics in question are harmful - thus, the "moral crusade".
- monoideism 6y ago
  Ok, fine if hold that viewpoint, but don't gaslight us that nothing new is going on. Politics has invaded everything, and it wasn't like this even 10 years ago.
  - gsk22 6y ago
    Disagreeing with your assessment is not gaslighting. I do agree America is more politicized now, but that doesn't mean the answer is to retreat into a shell and pretend the issues don't exist.
    - monoideism 6y ago
      > I do agree America is more politicized now, OK, then please don't play this "what culture war?", as if you have no idea what we're talking about. That's debating in bad faith. I'd not do that to you.
      - gsk22 6y ago
        Honestly, I don't know what you're on about. The term "culture war" is extremely vague and with an obvious negative connotation, but as far as I can tell you're simply complaining that politics are more visible in everyday life. Can you succinctly define what makes a "culture war", and how that is different from political debate?
        monoideism 6y ago
        OK, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war#Broadening_of_the_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war#Broadening_of_the_... Specifically, stuff like QAnon, facemask protests, BLM, trans rights, "white privilege", anthem protests, etc etc etc. There's pretty widespread recognition in the US of culture war flashpoints. But before I engage anymore: are you American? Because we're discussing these political topics in the US context in this thread, explicitly.
        gsk22 6y ago
        I am American, which is why I was asking. I just don't understand how "culture war" is any different than "political disagreement over social issues". Why do we need a scary new term?
standardUser 6y ago
"If you don't agree with me on X, then unfriend me, as I don't want any people like you in my life!" Most of those comments I have seen are specifically related to racism. For example, an individual will state that "if you don't support Black lives, unfriend me". I fail to find fault with that. Can you explain why it is problematic for someone to want to distance themselves socially from people that are opting-in to oppose a modern civil rights movement? I would certainly do the same with anyone who opposed the right of Women to vote, or gay people to marry.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  The amplification of identity through the capitalization of Black and Women is dangerous, tribal, and counterproductive in a collaborative environment. Plus, the phrase "if you don't support Black lives" is in the context of the Black Lives Matter movement, a group who has led riots all throughout the country. I'm not saying they didn't do so for a good reason. I'm saying it's not black-or-white, yet people who make such posts make it black-or-white.

monoideism 6y ago

You live in a large metro area where beliefs are fairly uniform. It would be understandable if you share those beliefs that you wouldn't have any disagreements, right? And I'm not sharing with HN the details of my family and workplace discussions, sorry. But maybe someone else here will be willing to. If you don't believe me, then that's OK, that's up to you. Edit: I mean, the media even covers the near constant revolts of activist employees at Facebook, Twitter, Coinbase, and many other tech companies. Do you want me to find you some articles? Is this new to you?

standardUser 6y ago
"If you don't believe me, then that's OK, that's up to you." I didn't say, suggest or imply that I didn't believe you. I stated my alternative experience and asked for more information about yours. "the media even covers the near constant revolts of activist employees" From what I see, those are arguments between people who believe in Thing A very strongly and want to act on it and people who also believe in Thing A but would rather not make a huge fuss about it. But the number of people who don't believe Thing A, in the extremely diverse and heavily populated areas I have lived in, are very tiny. For example, I almost never encounter people who think we should censor sex more, or ban abortion, or not fight racism or oppose police oppression, or that we should in any way oppose LGBTQ rights, or enforce religious ideology on the public sphere, etc.
- nikitaga 6y ago
  Step 1: "if you don't support Black lives, unfriend me" (a sentiment you agree with, from your other comment in this thread) Step 2: "I almost never encounter people who think we should [...] not fight racism" You're free to exclude anyone you don't like from your friends – it's your life. But if you do this, maybe don't use the fact that your bubble doesn't have anyone who thinks differently from you as evidence of there being very few people out there who disagree with you on such things?
  - standardUser 6y ago
    My so-called "bubble" includes dozens of uniquely massive metros that represent hundreds of millions of people. They drive, and historically have driven, most advances in art, culture, innovation and economic output. So it's not like I'm living in some remote backwater getting my news from obscure blogs. I'm up in the mix. As far as the current movement that aims to of change policy and perspectives to better protect and respect Black lives, I would point out that the supporting any given civil right movement, at any time in any culture, when viewed from a few decades distance, has a nearly flawless track record. Can you name a couple historic movements that had the goal of expanding rights or ending oppression that you, today, would oppose?