4 ms·

Unreasonable searches do not become reasonable searches simply because they're done by Palantir. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,

Unreasonable searches do not become reasonable searches simply because they're done by Palantir. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

trhway 6y ago
while emotionally i'm with you, logically i think that the data entering public commerce (until of course Palantir collected it illegally or in violation of privacy provisions of user contracts - which is pretty hard to establish given the multi-layer of data laundering) is like somebody walking the public street, ie. free game, in the sense that i don't see any explicit protection applicable in such a case. It also seems to follow that slippery slope proverb "they came ... until they came for you" - government started by outsourcing (to military contractors) illegal actions against foreign citizens, statistically mostly accidental civilians, and the citizenry was mainly fine with it, and now government seems to apply the outsourcing loophole (starting with data, the rest will come later) to its own citizenry. Failure to obey Congress? We're talking about agency which seems to have lost all humanity in their agents who shackle pregnant women right before and after delivery - i'm waiting for some military contractor to come up with and the CBP to buy the shackles allowing delivery while still on. Compare to that some database search without warrant... I mean it is kind of naive to think that illegality and inhumanity can be practiced while confined just at one agency or area of operations without metastasizing across.
- nobody9999 6y ago
  >while emotionally i'm with you, logically i think that the data entering public commerce (until of course Palantir collected it illegally or in violation of privacy provisions of user contracts - which is pretty hard to establish given the multi-layer of data laundering) is like somebody walking the public street, ie. free game, in the sense that i don't see any explicit protection applicable in such a case. A fair assessment of the current situation. However, there's nothing stopping the US (or any other government) from restricting both the collection of such data and/or government use of that collected data. What's apparently missing is the political will. Which points to the larger problem in the US -- sewers of filthy lucre flowing through the political system. If you get rid of the necessity for all that money with strict public funding of elections, along with resources to allow all citizens to express themselves on an equal footing with everyone else, we're more likely to get a government focused on the needs of constituents rather than the desires of big money contributors.
Glyptodon 6y ago
That's never been interpreted to require, for example, that the USGS needs a warrant from a court to make a map. Similarly, Palantir's collection of data isn't considered to be owned by those who it documents. I may despise Palantir, or think there should be other reforms to how data "ownership" works, and I may think that private companies are creating a giant Constitution-circumventing loophole, but it's very disengenuous to suggest that our history would make any government purchasing or licensing of something from a private business subject to a warrant.
- CalChris 6y ago
  The USGS cannot enter your private property without your permission. https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/can-usgs-do-a-survey-or-study-my-private-property https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/can-usgs-do-a-survey-or-study-my-p...

trhway 6y ago

while emotionally i'm with you, logically i think that the data entering public commerce (until of course Palantir collected it illegally or in violation of privacy provisions of user contracts - which is pretty hard to establish given the multi-layer of data laundering) is like somebody walking the public street, ie. free game, in the sense that i don't see any explicit protection applicable in such a case. It also seems to follow that slippery slope proverb "they came ... until they came for you" - government started by outsourcing (to military contractors) illegal actions against foreign citizens, statistically mostly accidental civilians, and the citizenry was mainly fine with it, and now government seems to apply the outsourcing loophole (starting with data, the rest will come later) to its own citizenry. Failure to obey Congress? We're talking about agency which seems to have lost all humanity in their agents who shackle pregnant women right before and after delivery - i'm waiting for some military contractor to come up with and the CBP to buy the shackles allowing delivery while still on. Compare to that some database search without warrant... I mean it is kind of naive to think that illegality and inhumanity can be practiced while confined just at one agency or area of operations without metastasizing across.

nobody9999 6y ago
>while emotionally i'm with you, logically i think that the data entering public commerce (until of course Palantir collected it illegally or in violation of privacy provisions of user contracts - which is pretty hard to establish given the multi-layer of data laundering) is like somebody walking the public street, ie. free game, in the sense that i don't see any explicit protection applicable in such a case. A fair assessment of the current situation. However, there's nothing stopping the US (or any other government) from restricting both the collection of such data and/or government use of that collected data. What's apparently missing is the political will. Which points to the larger problem in the US -- sewers of filthy lucre flowing through the political system. If you get rid of the necessity for all that money with strict public funding of elections, along with resources to allow all citizens to express themselves on an equal footing with everyone else, we're more likely to get a government focused on the needs of constituents rather than the desires of big money contributors.

Glyptodon 6y ago

That's never been interpreted to require, for example, that the USGS needs a warrant from a court to make a map. Similarly, Palantir's collection of data isn't considered to be owned by those who it documents. I may despise Palantir, or think there should be other reforms to how data "ownership" works, and I may think that private companies are creating a giant Constitution-circumventing loophole, but it's very disengenuous to suggest that our history would make any government purchasing or licensing of something from a private business subject to a warrant.

CalChris 6y ago
The USGS cannot enter your private property without your permission. https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/can-usgs-do-a-survey-or-study-my-private-property https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/can-usgs-do-a-survey-or-study-my-p...