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https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/grou... > There are three degr

by pdkl95 6y ago

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/grou... > There are three degrees of membership within the Proud Boys, and to become a first degree in the “pro-West fraternal organization” a prospective member simply has to declare “I am a western chauvinist, and I refuse to apologize for creating the modern world.” The Proud Boys describe themselves as a "Western chauvinist". White supremacists have used "western values" as code for "white" for a long time. Chauvinism is the belief in the superiority of a group. "Western chauvinist" literally means "white supremacist". If you don't believe me, read the many quotes in the SPLC article above.

microcolonel 6y ago
Firstly, the SPLC is a serial defamer and holds truth as a lower priority than essentially anything else. As a matter of principle, I won't defer to them on anything at this point. > "Western chauvinist" literally means "white supremacist" Only if you make several massive leaps in how words "are used". Has it occurred to you that the word "chauvinist" was chosen specifically to get a rise out of people who are overly sensitive to language? If it's really about racial superiority, how do they countenance being led by a black man and composed of a great number of non-white people? Then, if it's really about "white culture" (and I'm not really convinced it's thought of this way inside PB), then how is that white supremacy? Anyone can adopt a culture, and there are lots of "white" peoples in the world with objectively excellent and productive cultures worth being proud of; liking England or Norway doesn't make you a white supremacist. Enrique Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys, spells out explicitly that there are nations outside the West who have adopted the elements of culture that the Proud Boys are "chauvinist" about.
- dang 6y ago
  Ok, that's enough. We've re-banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24335263 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24335263 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23253600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23253600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21757546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21757546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21366367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21366367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20900462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20900462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19937222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19937222
  - microcolonel 6y ago
    That's enough of what, Dan? This comment was substantive, responsive to the parent comment, and cordial; it didn't provoke a flame war nor could it be expected to, it didn't include any quips or sick burns. If you don't like moderating after all this time, and I wouldn't blame you, at least understand I can't help other people spamming the flag button because they disagree with people's good-faith interpretation of facts. If there's a technical solution to that I'd be glad to help.
    - dang 6y ago
      Using HN for political and ideological battle, and especially race wars. That's not what HN is for. HN is for intellectual curiosity, and nobody who repeatedly gets into arguments about these things is using the site that way—rather, it's all about defeating enemies, which is not the intended spirit. "Facts" is a red herring. There are infinitely many facts and they don't select themselves, nor do they interpret themselves or present themselves. Humans do all of that and we are driven by motives, not facts. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - microcolonel 6y ago
        > Using HN for political and ideological battle, and especially race wars Of course, smearing the Proud Boys as white supremacists: not "race war" nor a "political and ideological battle"; disagreeing with the arguments for that: egregious and banworthy ideological battle.
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
They are not white supremacists no matter what the overtly biased SPLC says. Many of them are not even white, and their chairman is black. Trying to push this smear is just silly at this point. The media have taken to calling all anti-BLM or anti-antifa counter protesters “white supremacists” and it’s quite ridiculous.

by pdkl95 6y ago

microcolonel 6y ago

Firstly, the SPLC is a serial defamer and holds truth as a lower priority than essentially anything else. As a matter of principle, I won't defer to them on anything at this point. > "Western chauvinist" literally means "white supremacist" Only if you make several massive leaps in how words "are used". Has it occurred to you that the word "chauvinist" was chosen specifically to get a rise out of people who are overly sensitive to language? If it's really about racial superiority, how do they countenance being led by a black man and composed of a great number of non-white people? Then, if it's really about "white culture" (and I'm not really convinced it's thought of this way inside PB), then how is that white supremacy? Anyone can adopt a culture, and there are lots of "white" peoples in the world with objectively excellent and productive cultures worth being proud of; liking England or Norway doesn't make you a white supremacist. Enrique Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys, spells out explicitly that there are nations outside the West who have adopted the elements of culture that the Proud Boys are "chauvinist" about.

dang 6y ago
Ok, that's enough. We've re-banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24335263 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24335263 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23253600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23253600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21757546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21757546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21366367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21366367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20900462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20900462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19937222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19937222
- microcolonel 6y ago
  That's enough of what, Dan? This comment was substantive, responsive to the parent comment, and cordial; it didn't provoke a flame war nor could it be expected to, it didn't include any quips or sick burns. If you don't like moderating after all this time, and I wouldn't blame you, at least understand I can't help other people spamming the flag button because they disagree with people's good-faith interpretation of facts. If there's a technical solution to that I'd be glad to help.
  - dang 6y ago
    Using HN for political and ideological battle, and especially race wars. That's not what HN is for. HN is for intellectual curiosity, and nobody who repeatedly gets into arguments about these things is using the site that way—rather, it's all about defeating enemies, which is not the intended spirit. "Facts" is a red herring. There are infinitely many facts and they don't select themselves, nor do they interpret themselves or present themselves. Humans do all of that and we are driven by motives, not facts. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - microcolonel 6y ago
      > Using HN for political and ideological battle, and especially race wars Of course, smearing the Proud Boys as white supremacists: not "race war" nor a "political and ideological battle"; disagreeing with the arguments for that: egregious and banworthy ideological battle.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

They are not white supremacists no matter what the overtly biased SPLC says. Many of them are not even white, and their chairman is black. Trying to push this smear is just silly at this point. The media have taken to calling all anti-BLM or anti-antifa counter protesters “white supremacists” and it’s quite ridiculous.