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It's an entire industry devoted to wasting enormous energy, resources and intellectual capacity. There are simply no material external gains from HFT etc, it's
by jariel 6y ago
It's an entire industry devoted to wasting enormous energy, resources and intellectual capacity.
There are simply no material external gains from HFT etc, it's completely zero-sum other than maybe a 'job creation program'.
The site ridiculously talks about 'levelling the playing field' by extending HFT opportunities to other players, which is rich, considering the playing field could be 'levelled immediately' by some really basic regulation and a few smart queuing algorithms for placing orders.
- stzup7 6y agoI don't think that's quite right. It's the same way Formula 1 racing contributes to regular automotive industry. Technological innovations could be adopted by more mainstream industries in a few years. For instance SolarFlare NICs used to be almost exclusively used by HFT players and can now be found in most CDNs or latency sensitive cloud providers.
- zarkov99 6y agoThe F1 comparison is not bad, but its not great either. F1's tech innovations are much more publicly visible (HFT shops are extremely secretive) and F1 has the added benefit of providing entertainment value to millions.
- posnet 6y agoBetter or worse than Ad tech based companies? Most traders I've met have been fairly honest about contributing nothing to society, or that the world would probably be a better place is large segments of the finance industry disappeared tomorrow. I can't say the same for the majority of developers from Facebook or Google I've met.
- jariel 6y ago??? I run ads and campaigns for my company and they are an absolutely essential form of communication. ... as almost everyone running and actual business knows. Yes - it can be very inefficient - but it's not inherently wasteful. You're making the wrong comparison - the 'Digital Ad Industry' could be compared to 'Digital Banking Industry' perhaps - i.e. useful overall but deficiencies exist. HFT is one of the ares in which there are no reasonable externalities. Better/faster tech for CDNs etc. can be developed without the HFT industry.
- secondcoming 6y agoWhat sort of targeting do you use for your campaigns, and how privacy-violating are those targetings?
- jariel 6y agoIf you have to ask the question I would encourage you to take $50, open a FB ad account, same for Google, and run some ads to drive some traffic to your blog or whatever. Running an ad campaign, or having to 'get the word out' for something possibly meaningful can be an enlightening and transformative experience for so many people who live adjacent to, but otherwise 'totally outside' the ostensibly opaque world of marketing. It's one of the most stupidly represented issues in pop culture, like 'reefer madness' memes form the 1960s' where 'smoking weed will make you gay!'. Well - just 'smoke weed' once and you realize it's frankly just not that big of a deal. Ads are ancient, normal, universal. The industry has serious efficiency problems, we're starting to face privacy issues (which are overstated but nevertheless legit), and I don't like some mediums (I for one, think we should dump most billboards) - but the nature of the industry is not wrong or evil, it's actually beneifical. 'Good ads' are a win for everyone. HFT is only a win for those directly involved and it's zero sum.
- jimbob21 6y ago>but the nature of the industry is not wrong or evil, it's actually beneifical. Can you prove how? Thats what the previous poster was asking. >'Good ads' are a win for everyone. Again, how? I don't like ads. I think they're annoying. They're not good for me. I think you're drinking the koolaid.
- secondcoming 6y agoLol, I work in adtech.
- literallycancer 6y agoSo uh, HFT is a zero-sum waste of intelligence, but paying for the privilege of shitting into people's brains to improve the chances that they waste money on garbage that they don't need is somehow positive-sum and good for society?
- zarkov99 6y agoThat is not un an entirely unfair characterization. However in my mind HFT practicioners are model citizens when compared to so many of the bright young minds working in the worlds largest tech companies. HFT is a neutral force in the world, while Ad driven tech is causing harm at a scale that is hard to overstate. History will judge the companies profiting from manipulating the worst in us in a much harsher light than they will HFT.
- otabdeveloper4 6y agoComplaining about advertising is like complaining about money. Business absolutely cannot exist without advertising. The need must be filled one way or another. The same cannot be said about HFT and stock markets in general.
- zarkov99 6y agoIts not the need for advertising. Its the unreasonable effectivness and devastating side-effects of the attention sequestration techniques developed in the last 10 years. Its not only that years of our of lives are being directly stollen by vapid bullshit, its that the effects of this manipulation extend well beyond the actual time spent engaging with it, with absolutely horrific consequences to our mental health, our coesion as a people and ultimately our physical safety. In a generation, if not earlier, the ad bussiness will be looked upon in a worst light than the tabaco industry. And this will be entirely appropriate.
- otabdeveloper4 6y agoAgain, business cannot exist without advertising. Even money and finance is negotiable - business can survive on barter alone, even though the overhead would be monstrous. But advertising is not negotiable, it must exist in one way or another if the economy exists. If you want to go down this road, argue about the "how", not the "what". The idea of banning advertising outright is too silly for words.
- literallycancer 6y agoIt helps with price discovery just like human traders do. Is there something inherently better about droves of people shouting into telephones?