4 ms·

Well, I said "most". I was a bit wrong. It's not just benefiting from racism that makes you racist by the definition, it's being a part of one of the systems th

Well, I said "most". I was a bit wrong. It's not just benefiting from racism that makes you racist by the definition, it's being a part of one of the systems that props up racism. Here's a definition from the ADL for systemic racism. "A combination of systems, institutions and factors that advantage white people and for people of color, cause widespread harm and disadvantages in access and opportunity. One person or even one group of people did not create systemic racism, rather it: (1) is grounded in the history of our laws and institutions which were created on a foundation of white supremacy;* (2) exists in the institutions and policies that advantage white people and disadvantage people of color; and (3) takes places in interpersonal communication and behavior (e.g., slurs, bullying, offensive language) that maintains and supports systemic inequities and systemic racism." [1] So if you support one of the "systems, institutions and factors", you are by this definition, racist. I just said most white people probably are, by this definition. [1] https://www.adl.org/racism https://www.adl.org/racism

cabraca 6y ago
Don't you think that the definition of racism from a organisation that profits of fighting racism is a little bit biased?
- Miner49er 6y ago
  Yes, that's my entire point. They are working with a different definition then most people.
  - cabraca 6y ago
    So you agree that this definition is biased and we shouldn't use it?
    - Miner49er 6y ago
      I think it would be better if there was more understanding of what people were talking about when they said "racism". I personally think that this definition of "racism", is more useful, but it clearly causes misunderstanding. I personally don't think individual racists are that big of a deal anymore. Systemic racism is much more harmful. I even think that a little bit of the prejudice-type racism can help people overcome racism. More on that: https://qz.com/398723/slavoj-zizek-thinks-political-correctness-is-exactly-what-perpetuates-prejudice-and-racism/ https://qz.com/398723/slavoj-zizek-thinks-political-correctn...
      - cabraca 6y ago
        Could you give me an example what constitutes systemic racism from your point of view?
        Miner49er 6y ago
        It's just systemic things that end up, on large scale, hurting minorities more. For example, the judicial and prison system. Black people aren't incarcerated at such a high rate [1] because the judicial system and the police are full of KKK members or anything. It's due to a bunch of systemic problems and America's history of racism and slavery. It's a result of when America was clearly straight-forwardly racist. Like when black people couldn't buy houses in white neighborhoods. Now they have on average 10x less wealth than the average white family [2] and have access to worse schools, etc. This of course will lead more black people to turn to crime, because they have less good options, because they are on average, poorer and less educated. All the old laws and our history going back to slavery still has effects today that are compounding and allow the problem to continue to exist. [1] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/racial-wealth-gap-costs-economy-1-5-trillion-dollars-report-finds/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/racial-wealth-gap-costs-economy... [3] https://www.brookings.edu/articles/unequal-opportunity-race-and-education/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/unequal-opportunity-race-...
        cabraca 6y ago
        > It's due to a bunch of systemic problems and America's history of racism and slavery. How do you explain then, that asian-americans (on average) outearn whites, have a higher SAT score and are less likly to be in prison? They have been impacted by racist policies too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America... > This of course will lead more black people to turn to crime, because they have less good options, because they are on average, poorer and less educated. All the old laws and our history going back to slavery still has effects today that are compounding and allow the problem to continue to exist. poverty and education dont explain those numbers, but there is (at least partly) the growing number of fatherless homes that correlate with many factors influence positive outcome. https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/06/18/533062607/poverty-dropouts-pregnancy-suicide-what-the-numbers-say-about-fatherless-kids https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/06/18/533062607/poverty... https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/line/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race?loc=1&loct=1#1/any/false/37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133,38/asc/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/431 https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/line/107-children-in-s... You want black people to get out of this cycle? Dont be a criminal, comply with police, educate yourself, help others do the same. But somehow this is called "acting white".
taxcoder 6y ago
It's a bit troubling that the definition of racism specifies what colors the actors must be to meet the definition. That fact alone makes the definition suspect.

cabraca 6y ago

Don't you think that the definition of racism from a organisation that profits of fighting racism is a little bit biased?

Miner49er 6y ago
Yes, that's my entire point. They are working with a different definition then most people.
- cabraca 6y ago
  So you agree that this definition is biased and we shouldn't use it?
  - Miner49er 6y ago
    I think it would be better if there was more understanding of what people were talking about when they said "racism". I personally think that this definition of "racism", is more useful, but it clearly causes misunderstanding. I personally don't think individual racists are that big of a deal anymore. Systemic racism is much more harmful. I even think that a little bit of the prejudice-type racism can help people overcome racism. More on that: https://qz.com/398723/slavoj-zizek-thinks-political-correctness-is-exactly-what-perpetuates-prejudice-and-racism/ https://qz.com/398723/slavoj-zizek-thinks-political-correctn...
    - cabraca 6y ago
      Could you give me an example what constitutes systemic racism from your point of view?
      - Miner49er 6y ago
        It's just systemic things that end up, on large scale, hurting minorities more. For example, the judicial and prison system. Black people aren't incarcerated at such a high rate [1] because the judicial system and the police are full of KKK members or anything. It's due to a bunch of systemic problems and America's history of racism and slavery. It's a result of when America was clearly straight-forwardly racist. Like when black people couldn't buy houses in white neighborhoods. Now they have on average 10x less wealth than the average white family [2] and have access to worse schools, etc. This of course will lead more black people to turn to crime, because they have less good options, because they are on average, poorer and less educated. All the old laws and our history going back to slavery still has effects today that are compounding and allow the problem to continue to exist. [1] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/racial-wealth-gap-costs-economy-1-5-trillion-dollars-report-finds/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/racial-wealth-gap-costs-economy... [3] https://www.brookings.edu/articles/unequal-opportunity-race-and-education/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/unequal-opportunity-race-...
        cabraca 6y ago
        > It's due to a bunch of systemic problems and America's history of racism and slavery. How do you explain then, that asian-americans (on average) outearn whites, have a higher SAT score and are less likly to be in prison? They have been impacted by racist policies too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America... > This of course will lead more black people to turn to crime, because they have less good options, because they are on average, poorer and less educated. All the old laws and our history going back to slavery still has effects today that are compounding and allow the problem to continue to exist. poverty and education dont explain those numbers, but there is (at least partly) the growing number of fatherless homes that correlate with many factors influence positive outcome. https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/06/18/533062607/poverty-dropouts-pregnancy-suicide-what-the-numbers-say-about-fatherless-kids https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/06/18/533062607/poverty... https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/line/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race?loc=1&loct=1#1/any/false/37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133,38/asc/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/431 https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/line/107-children-in-s... You want black people to get out of this cycle? Dont be a criminal, comply with police, educate yourself, help others do the same. But somehow this is called "acting white".

taxcoder 6y ago

It's a bit troubling that the definition of racism specifies what colors the actors must be to meet the definition. That fact alone makes the definition suspect.