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Thats an over-reaction. The first is not religious in any sense. It appears to be an acknowledgment of the bias's we all have as humans. We all have bias's, un

Thats an over-reaction. The first is not religious in any sense. It appears to be an acknowledgment of the bias's we all have as humans. We all have bias's, unconscious and conscious - its part of being human. In that sense we're all 'racist' to some degree and its important to acknowledge that so as to overcome it. As far as the second example cited I think more information is missing before jumping to a conclusion.

jlokier 6y ago
I think there is a fair argument to be made that acknowledging bias and calling yourself racist aren't the same thing. If you're endeavouring to acknowledge, understand and overcome biases, that isn't racism, it's anti-racism.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kharak 6y ago
It is completely baffling that anyone could not see the cult characteristic of a ritual where you're required to tell everyone around you that you are inherintly guilty. Seriously? What else do you need? Proclamation of the believe in unseen powers?
- donohoe 6y ago
  "cult characteristic of a ritual" Thats a big stretch.
  - formerly_proven 6y ago
    Respond with an actual argument, or don't respond at all.
ericmay 6y ago
> In that sense we're all 'racist' to some degree and its important to acknowledge that so as to overcome it. No. I reject this. No matter how many times you or others tell me that I’m racist and can’t help it, and if I just pray... I mean take enough sanctioned training courses it’ll go away I will not partake. Period. Nobody is racist until proven otherwise, or racist until they’ve taken enough unconscious bias training courses. That’s something you and others are making up to deal with your own insecurities and racism. Being uncomfortable walking down the street at night because you see a black man is your racism. Not mine. No thanks. This entire “movement” looks exactly like a witch hunt or the Soviet gulags. When someone is inconvenient, you just call them a racist since everybody is magically, automatically guilty of being racist and off they go. I’m really sick and tired of seeing this crap. It’s ruining western civilization and creating conflict. It’s not even about race anymore. It’s just white people telling everyone they are racist so they can feel good about themselves and create positions of power and authority. Some genuinely believe this, but some also genuinely believe they are saving your soul when they pray for you. I reject racism. I’m not a racist and you’re not going to tell me or others that we are racist just because you are or you think others are.
- tankenmate 6y ago
  I suspect that a lot of people forget the concept of mens rea (sometimes through lack of critical thinking, sometimes for deliberate conflation). Labels are easy to throw around; unconscious bias gets lumped together with racism. One is culpable behaviour, the other not paying attention. But again if someone wants to push a particular point of view it's just easier to label someone else as "bad" without having to explain exactly what is bad or how bad. For every problem there is a solution that is simple, neat—and wrong. -- H.L. Mencken and from a different social issue but highlighting how easy it is to go from "good guy" to "bad guy"; When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist. -- Hélder Câmara
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    Mens rea as a cultural notion has been undermined by the growth of strict liability laws to be "tough on crime" plus it spares any prosecutorial inconveninces like having to prove the barest level of intent. I am no domain expert but an ammendment to require mens rea for far more felonies as opposed to the farcical nonsense where picking up an unidentified feather could be a crime if the feather turns out to be from a bald eagle.
- M2Ys4U 6y ago
  >No. I reject this. No matter how many times you or others tell me that I’m racist and can’t help it, and if I just pray... I mean take enough sanctioned training courses it’ll go away I will not partake. Period. Nobody is racist until proven otherwise, or racist until they’ve taken enough unconscious bias training courses. That’s something you and others are making up to deal with your own insecurities and racism. Being uncomfortable walking down the street at night because you see a black man is your racism. Not mine. No thanks. Racism comes in many forms, it's not just about being scared of black men on the street. That's a wildly exaggerated strawman. Everyone has biases and prejudices. Everyone. Yes, that includes you. But people don't have the same biases and prejudices. People differ in what they're prejudiced against (or for!) and they differ in the magnitude of their prejudice. And let's be clear: this is not just about skin colour. Gender, sexual orientation, class, accent, formal education... people have prejudices against all of these things and more. Unconscious bias not a type of prayer or cleansing ritual. You don't stop being biased or prejudiced because you do UB training. It is supposed to help you identify when and how that prejudice manifests itself so that you can take a step back and try and consciously try and remove your prejudices from your decision-making. And if you reject racism, why not arm yourself with this tool? If you're not racist (or sexist or classist etc...) Why not take a couple of seconds to think "has some stereotype about this person lead me to this conclusion? No? Okay, let's carry on..."

jlokier 6y ago

I think there is a fair argument to be made that acknowledging bias and calling yourself racist aren't the same thing. If you're endeavouring to acknowledge, understand and overcome biases, that isn't racism, it's anti-racism.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

kharak 6y ago

It is completely baffling that anyone could not see the cult characteristic of a ritual where you're required to tell everyone around you that you are inherintly guilty. Seriously? What else do you need? Proclamation of the believe in unseen powers?

donohoe 6y ago
"cult characteristic of a ritual" Thats a big stretch.
- formerly_proven 6y ago
  Respond with an actual argument, or don't respond at all.

ericmay 6y ago

> In that sense we're all 'racist' to some degree and its important to acknowledge that so as to overcome it. No. I reject this. No matter how many times you or others tell me that I’m racist and can’t help it, and if I just pray... I mean take enough sanctioned training courses it’ll go away I will not partake. Period. Nobody is racist until proven otherwise, or racist until they’ve taken enough unconscious bias training courses. That’s something you and others are making up to deal with your own insecurities and racism. Being uncomfortable walking down the street at night because you see a black man is your racism. Not mine. No thanks. This entire “movement” looks exactly like a witch hunt or the Soviet gulags. When someone is inconvenient, you just call them a racist since everybody is magically, automatically guilty of being racist and off they go. I’m really sick and tired of seeing this crap. It’s ruining western civilization and creating conflict. It’s not even about race anymore. It’s just white people telling everyone they are racist so they can feel good about themselves and create positions of power and authority. Some genuinely believe this, but some also genuinely believe they are saving your soul when they pray for you. I reject racism. I’m not a racist and you’re not going to tell me or others that we are racist just because you are or you think others are.

tankenmate 6y ago
I suspect that a lot of people forget the concept of mens rea (sometimes through lack of critical thinking, sometimes for deliberate conflation). Labels are easy to throw around; unconscious bias gets lumped together with racism. One is culpable behaviour, the other not paying attention. But again if someone wants to push a particular point of view it's just easier to label someone else as "bad" without having to explain exactly what is bad or how bad. For every problem there is a solution that is simple, neat—and wrong. -- H.L. Mencken and from a different social issue but highlighting how easy it is to go from "good guy" to "bad guy"; When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist. -- Hélder Câmara
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  Mens rea as a cultural notion has been undermined by the growth of strict liability laws to be "tough on crime" plus it spares any prosecutorial inconveninces like having to prove the barest level of intent. I am no domain expert but an ammendment to require mens rea for far more felonies as opposed to the farcical nonsense where picking up an unidentified feather could be a crime if the feather turns out to be from a bald eagle.
M2Ys4U 6y ago
>No. I reject this. No matter how many times you or others tell me that I’m racist and can’t help it, and if I just pray... I mean take enough sanctioned training courses it’ll go away I will not partake. Period. Nobody is racist until proven otherwise, or racist until they’ve taken enough unconscious bias training courses. That’s something you and others are making up to deal with your own insecurities and racism. Being uncomfortable walking down the street at night because you see a black man is your racism. Not mine. No thanks. Racism comes in many forms, it's not just about being scared of black men on the street. That's a wildly exaggerated strawman. Everyone has biases and prejudices. Everyone. Yes, that includes you. But people don't have the same biases and prejudices. People differ in what they're prejudiced against (or for!) and they differ in the magnitude of their prejudice. And let's be clear: this is not just about skin colour. Gender, sexual orientation, class, accent, formal education... people have prejudices against all of these things and more. Unconscious bias not a type of prayer or cleansing ritual. You don't stop being biased or prejudiced because you do UB training. It is supposed to help you identify when and how that prejudice manifests itself so that you can take a step back and try and consciously try and remove your prejudices from your decision-making. And if you reject racism, why not arm yourself with this tool? If you're not racist (or sexist or classist etc...) Why not take a couple of seconds to think "has some stereotype about this person lead me to this conclusion? No? Okay, let's carry on..."