5 ms·

As a twenty-something who grew up in Texas but has spent my adult life learning and working in the UK - I really disagree with calling any large cultural ideas

by reedf1 6y ago

As a twenty-something who grew up in Texas but has spent my adult life learning and working in the UK - I really disagree with calling any large cultural ideas as "US imports". The perception from the UK is that the US is much more polarised than it actually is - and from my perception the UK is even more polarised, but just refuses to believe it. I think this is because minority populations are so much smaller in the UK. Minorities have less of a collective voice and influence on culture, and hence most brits "collision cross-section" with racism is smaller. Hence they think of it as less of a problem, but it isn't. I've had Indonesian colleagues yelled at on a bus, Chinese friend shrieked at for using their phone, and my black friend who just feels like he wont ever "be british". My Indian colleague can talk my head off about the racist hiring techniques he's had to deal with. It's not "not a problem" it's just that most brits don't even know someone who is a minority, let alone one that's experienced racism.

fit2rule 6y ago
>Texas + >the US is much more polarised than it actually is == not representative of the US. Travel more.
arethuza 6y ago
If anyone thinks that racism at all levels isn't a problem I can strongly suggest reading about the Windrush scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal I'm in the middle of a reading a book about it at the moment and to say I am appalled by how these people were treated is an understatement.
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  How did “we lost the paperwork” turn into “well you look foreign so leave your country”?
  - jlokier 6y ago
    You should have seen the despicable "Go Home" vans that were circulating for a while. And the "hostile environment" that is legally mandated homelessness (people aren't allowed to rent privately, landlords have to check with .gov for "eligibility" to rent). All those "we lost the paperwork" people are subject to that. They would have lost their jobs, gradually had their banks close the accounts (with no alternative), had their landlords gradually unable to continue the tenancies (each renewal would check), and if they were sick, found themselves rejected at hospital. Someone died due to cancer treatment being stopped. Some other people who were resident did the decent thing and supplied the tax office with minor tax corrections after their accountants made small errors. This was encouraged by the tax office, we're all supposed to do that and it's quite straightforward. For that good behaviour they got labelled as having bad character and kicked out, because... any excuse to. That's a doubly-harsh label as it limits their rights in other countries in addition to being kicked out of the UK.
    - arethuza 6y ago
      Operation Vaken (who came up with that name?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Go_Home%22_vans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Go_Home%22_vans
    - nailer 6y ago
      > > How did “we lost the paperwork” turn into “well you look foreign so leave your country”? > You should have seen the despicable "Go Home" vans that were circulating for a while. How is losing the paperwork for legal migrants comparable or even closely related to telling illegal migrants to leave?
      - wizzwizz4 6y ago
        I think this was referring to the “well you look foreign so leave your country” part. The law is often… not right on these issues.
      - pjc50 6y ago
        The only distinction between people with legal status and those without is paperwork. Which may have errors in it. A coworker of mine had to spend six months living in someone else's flat and legally barred from working while he sued the Home Office; he'd entered legally, they found a paperwork error (making him "illegal"), and he won (making him "legal") once more. Brexit provides lots of examples of how people who entered and lived in the UK legally but never got (and indeed weren't eligible for!) ILR suddenly can become "illegal" if they don't get "settled status". Be very clear about this: if you immigrate to the UK by what you think is a legal route, and the Home Office makes a mistake, you can become an illegal immigrant very quickly.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Other way round. The UK's racism has pervaded the Home Office, so it's now finding pretexts to deport as many people as possible. This is why the UK removed in 2013 the ability to claim legal aid money for immigration cases, to make it harder for people to dispute their illegal decisions.
realusername 6y ago
> Chinese friend shrieked at for using their phone, and my black friend who just feels like he wont ever "be british" That's been one of the issues I encountered on my case on the time I've spent in the UK, you can spend as much time as you want there, you will never be considered like a local, you will be designated as a part of the community you supposed to belong, that's great if you like recreating the place you are coming from, not so great if you actually want to integrate.
pjc50 6y ago
> I really disagree with calling any large cultural ideas as "US imports". Apart from film, pop music, reality television, the Yankees baseball cap, jeans, and a constant stream of news articles about Trump, what have the Americans ever done for us? Compare how many cultural products are American in origin or mention America or American news to how many you get about, say, France or Germany. The influence is _huge_. This is why France has laws requiring a fraction of culture (especially TV and film) to be in French. The UK is certainly polarised, and racist, but in different ways to America. It may be the case that a police murder in Portland starts a riot in Bristol, but it would never be the other way round. When was the last time there was a protest by Americans outside a British embassy over British politics? The US embassy in London practically has a rota for all the different groups that have protested there.

by reedf1 6y ago

fit2rule 6y ago

>Texas + >the US is much more polarised than it actually is == not representative of the US. Travel more.

arethuza 6y ago

If anyone thinks that racism at all levels isn't a problem I can strongly suggest reading about the Windrush scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal I'm in the middle of a reading a book about it at the moment and to say I am appalled by how these people were treated is an understatement.

wizzwizz4 6y ago
How did “we lost the paperwork” turn into “well you look foreign so leave your country”?
- jlokier 6y ago
  You should have seen the despicable "Go Home" vans that were circulating for a while. And the "hostile environment" that is legally mandated homelessness (people aren't allowed to rent privately, landlords have to check with .gov for "eligibility" to rent). All those "we lost the paperwork" people are subject to that. They would have lost their jobs, gradually had their banks close the accounts (with no alternative), had their landlords gradually unable to continue the tenancies (each renewal would check), and if they were sick, found themselves rejected at hospital. Someone died due to cancer treatment being stopped. Some other people who were resident did the decent thing and supplied the tax office with minor tax corrections after their accountants made small errors. This was encouraged by the tax office, we're all supposed to do that and it's quite straightforward. For that good behaviour they got labelled as having bad character and kicked out, because... any excuse to. That's a doubly-harsh label as it limits their rights in other countries in addition to being kicked out of the UK.
  - arethuza 6y ago
    Operation Vaken (who came up with that name?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Go_Home%22_vans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Go_Home%22_vans
  - nailer 6y ago
    > > How did “we lost the paperwork” turn into “well you look foreign so leave your country”? > You should have seen the despicable "Go Home" vans that were circulating for a while. How is losing the paperwork for legal migrants comparable or even closely related to telling illegal migrants to leave?
    - wizzwizz4 6y ago
      I think this was referring to the “well you look foreign so leave your country” part. The law is often… not right on these issues.
    - pjc50 6y ago
      The only distinction between people with legal status and those without is paperwork. Which may have errors in it. A coworker of mine had to spend six months living in someone else's flat and legally barred from working while he sued the Home Office; he'd entered legally, they found a paperwork error (making him "illegal"), and he won (making him "legal") once more. Brexit provides lots of examples of how people who entered and lived in the UK legally but never got (and indeed weren't eligible for!) ILR suddenly can become "illegal" if they don't get "settled status". Be very clear about this: if you immigrate to the UK by what you think is a legal route, and the Home Office makes a mistake, you can become an illegal immigrant very quickly.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Other way round. The UK's racism has pervaded the Home Office, so it's now finding pretexts to deport as many people as possible. This is why the UK removed in 2013 the ability to claim legal aid money for immigration cases, to make it harder for people to dispute their illegal decisions.

realusername 6y ago

> Chinese friend shrieked at for using their phone, and my black friend who just feels like he wont ever "be british" That's been one of the issues I encountered on my case on the time I've spent in the UK, you can spend as much time as you want there, you will never be considered like a local, you will be designated as a part of the community you supposed to belong, that's great if you like recreating the place you are coming from, not so great if you actually want to integrate.

pjc50 6y ago

> I really disagree with calling any large cultural ideas as "US imports". Apart from film, pop music, reality television, the Yankees baseball cap, jeans, and a constant stream of news articles about Trump, what have the Americans ever done for us? Compare how many cultural products are American in origin or mention America or American news to how many you get about, say, France or Germany. The influence is _huge_. This is why France has laws requiring a fraction of culture (especially TV and film) to be in French. The UK is certainly polarised, and racist, but in different ways to America. It may be the case that a police murder in Portland starts a riot in Bristol, but it would never be the other way round. When was the last time there was a protest by Americans outside a British embassy over British politics? The US embassy in London practically has a rota for all the different groups that have protested there.