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> Do we seriously believe any government follows it's constitution? Absolutely. Many do. Look at America and their second amendment: there's no way that would

> Do we seriously believe any government follows it's constitution? Absolutely. Many do. Look at America and their second amendment: there's no way that would fly today if it wasn't in the constitution. Luckily it is and power hungry politicians have to accept it. Same with the first amendment. Some of these are even are powerful today than before and I hope the fourth amendment will soon see a renaissance. > What is the mechanism for redress should it fail to do so? Courts. Also it affects politicians directly. There was a petition here to give a mountain on the Finnish border to the Finnish people. Many people advocated for this but in the end it was struck down because politicians aren't even allowed to give away land and they know it.

Consultant32452 6y ago
>Look at America and their second amendment In America the right to an abortion is more respected under our legal system than the right to a gun despite what is written in the Constitution. The law is downstream of culture, and that document only says what 5 Justices say it says.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  I don't disagree with the first part. I think you are right but don't talk more about it: it brings up the ugliest discussions at this place. For the second part they seem to be lucky to get a good judge now that will not let her own ideas interfere much with her job and instead interpret the constitution as it was written.
  - zimpenfish 6y ago
    > interpret the constitution as it was written Does this mean she'll be ruling that owning people is ok, removing the vote from women, and striking down the 2nd Amendment?
    - Consultant32452 6y ago
      The constitution as it was written allows for amendments. The 13th and 19th Amendments outlawed slavery and gave women the right to vote, respectively.
      - zimpenfish 6y ago
        But those amendments didn't exist when it "was written" - if you're an Originalist claiming to interpret the Constitution "as it was written", that excludes amendments. If you change it to "as it is written", sure, that includes them but you lose the claim to be an Originalist given the timestamps on everything after the 12th Amendment since that's 76 years later and I'm reasonably sure none of the framers were alive then.
        Consultant32452 6y ago
        The 19th Amendment was ratified in 1920. It was written then. The fact that other parts were ratified at different times doesn't stop you from interpreting each part "as it was written." But you know that.
    - Clubber 6y ago
      The 13th, 19th and 2nd amendments exist in the constitution, as written: 13th: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. 19th: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. 2nd: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Any political and / or legal discussion should start with at least a vague understanding of that document. All our laws and institutions are founded with it.
      - zimpenfish 6y ago

Consultant32452 6y ago

>Look at America and their second amendment In America the right to an abortion is more respected under our legal system than the right to a gun despite what is written in the Constitution. The law is downstream of culture, and that document only says what 5 Justices say it says.

skinkestek 6y ago
I don't disagree with the first part. I think you are right but don't talk more about it: it brings up the ugliest discussions at this place. For the second part they seem to be lucky to get a good judge now that will not let her own ideas interfere much with her job and instead interpret the constitution as it was written.
- zimpenfish 6y ago
  > interpret the constitution as it was written Does this mean she'll be ruling that owning people is ok, removing the vote from women, and striking down the 2nd Amendment?
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    The constitution as it was written allows for amendments. The 13th and 19th Amendments outlawed slavery and gave women the right to vote, respectively.
    - zimpenfish 6y ago
      But those amendments didn't exist when it "was written" - if you're an Originalist claiming to interpret the Constitution "as it was written", that excludes amendments. If you change it to "as it is written", sure, that includes them but you lose the claim to be an Originalist given the timestamps on everything after the 12th Amendment since that's 76 years later and I'm reasonably sure none of the framers were alive then.
      - Consultant32452 6y ago
        The 19th Amendment was ratified in 1920. It was written then. The fact that other parts were ratified at different times doesn't stop you from interpreting each part "as it was written." But you know that.
  - Clubber 6y ago
    The 13th, 19th and 2nd amendments exist in the constitution, as written: 13th: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. 19th: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. 2nd: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Any political and / or legal discussion should start with at least a vague understanding of that document. All our laws and institutions are founded with it.
    - zimpenfish 6y ago