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Do you really think that it's out of "political expedience" that sites are blocking links to probable foreign disinformation? Or is it out of a moral interest i

Do you really think that it's out of "political expedience" that sites are blocking links to probable foreign disinformation? Or is it out of a moral interest in not being pawns of the bad actors who stand behind it? This kind of disinformation is dangerous, and we are vulnerable to it precisely because we value freedom of speech. That doesn't mean that we're morally obligated to value all speech equally. Obviously false and dangerous speech should be suppressed. Twitter (and other sites) is taking a moral stand, not an expedient stand.

crocodiletears 6y ago
Journalists and commentators are the ones acting out of political expediency. The platforms themselves are a mixed bag, occasionaly banning content that represents legitimate disinformation, but often suppressing information that's contextually true, or conflicts with an existing broader social narrative which the moderator required to inspect the content has bought into. The human moderators are often inconsistent. The concept that any person or organization should be granted absolute authority to serve as the arbiter of whay constitutes dangerous or false speech, and the power to arbitrarily silence those who utter it offends me, and I consider it to be dangerous in and of itself. We'll not be able to agree on this. WRT the NYP piece, probably foreign sourced is about right. Even before the media picked up its Russia Trumpet, I remember reading a rumor towards the beginning of the Trump-Ukraine phone call debacle that a Chinese billionaire had slipped Juliani a hard drive containing information that might be incriminating to Biden's some. Irrespective of the source, the computer shop narrative reeks. But in spite of information's questionable provenance, it has been accompanied with compromising images of Hunter himself, and beyond stating that a meeting with Burisma execs wasn't on Biden's 'official' schedule, the biden campaign has yet (to my knowledge), to expressly deny the validity of the documents. If this is disinformation, the FBI, which has ostensibly been in possession of the documents for several months, has every incentive to comment on it, as does the CIA. Beyond ambiguous citations of 'anonymous officials', I've yet to read that they've communicated anything to this effect. The Director of National Intelligence has gone so far as to claim that this wasn't a Russian disinformation project. But he's a Trump apparatchik with no history in intelligence outside his appointment, so I generally ignore him. Probably foreign sourced? My gut says yes. Possibly disinformation? The juries still out. Possibly's a pretty low bar for stealing someone's voice. The tech companies took it upon themselves to censor this information. They've not claimed they were compelled or reccommended to by any official bodies any more than they were required to censor the name of the Urkaine whistleblower. But they chose to, of their own accord. If you want to be treated like a platform, you have to live with the fact that your platform's going to be used to further the aims of anyone who wannts to use it. Bar illegal content and behaviors (things disinformation is not), the most you should do is notify your users, sit back, and take it.
- TravHatesMe 6y ago
  Happy to see people think for themselves and form their own opinion. Good balance in your comment. You left room for doubt and rationally stated the reasons behind your opinion. Refreshing. Thank you.
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    Seconded. Refreshing. I also try to do the same[1] but crocodiletears did much better. [1]: you'll find me pointing out the "fine people on both sides" has been debunked and asking questions about the Hunter Biden disk.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  > that a Chinese billionaire had slipped Juliani a hard drive containing information that might be incriminating to Biden's Questions: why would the Chinese do that? Or do you mean a Chinese billionaire did it without the involvement of the government? Or do you think their recommendation of Biden is a calculated move to get people to vote for Trump?
  - crocodiletears 6y ago
    My understanding is that he was a billionaire on the outs w/Xi's administration, however I only recall that much because it seemed like an interesting assertion at the time, but didn't look into it, nor did I bother remembering the source, because it was while I was skimming a bunch of articles and posts at once trying to keep abreast of the Burisma controversy. So I would take it with a significant grain of salt. Whether or not China would support the action is opaque to me. Trump's trade policies have massively reframed our relationship to the country, but whether or not that's been a positive thing for factions within the CCP is well beyond my knowledge or means to learn.
    - CapricornNoble 6y ago
      Billionaire Miles Guo is an anti-CCP dissident. His website Gnews.org, is the only site I've come across with elicit Hunter Biden footage. I have no idea how/why he has that material, but I think if he sees an opportunity to undermine the CCP's public image by linking them to a corrupt drugged-out American "Princeling", he would capitalize on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guo_Wengui#GNews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guo_Wengui#GNews It's also the only site where I've seen the "BGY Program" mentioned. https://gnews.org/51672/ https://gnews.org/51672/

crocodiletears 6y ago

Journalists and commentators are the ones acting out of political expediency. The platforms themselves are a mixed bag, occasionaly banning content that represents legitimate disinformation, but often suppressing information that's contextually true, or conflicts with an existing broader social narrative which the moderator required to inspect the content has bought into. The human moderators are often inconsistent. The concept that any person or organization should be granted absolute authority to serve as the arbiter of whay constitutes dangerous or false speech, and the power to arbitrarily silence those who utter it offends me, and I consider it to be dangerous in and of itself. We'll not be able to agree on this. WRT the NYP piece, probably foreign sourced is about right. Even before the media picked up its Russia Trumpet, I remember reading a rumor towards the beginning of the Trump-Ukraine phone call debacle that a Chinese billionaire had slipped Juliani a hard drive containing information that might be incriminating to Biden's some. Irrespective of the source, the computer shop narrative reeks. But in spite of information's questionable provenance, it has been accompanied with compromising images of Hunter himself, and beyond stating that a meeting with Burisma execs wasn't on Biden's 'official' schedule, the biden campaign has yet (to my knowledge), to expressly deny the validity of the documents. If this is disinformation, the FBI, which has ostensibly been in possession of the documents for several months, has every incentive to comment on it, as does the CIA. Beyond ambiguous citations of 'anonymous officials', I've yet to read that they've communicated anything to this effect. The Director of National Intelligence has gone so far as to claim that this wasn't a Russian disinformation project. But he's a Trump apparatchik with no history in intelligence outside his appointment, so I generally ignore him. Probably foreign sourced? My gut says yes. Possibly disinformation? The juries still out. Possibly's a pretty low bar for stealing someone's voice. The tech companies took it upon themselves to censor this information. They've not claimed they were compelled or reccommended to by any official bodies any more than they were required to censor the name of the Urkaine whistleblower. But they chose to, of their own accord. If you want to be treated like a platform, you have to live with the fact that your platform's going to be used to further the aims of anyone who wannts to use it. Bar illegal content and behaviors (things disinformation is not), the most you should do is notify your users, sit back, and take it.

TravHatesMe 6y ago
Happy to see people think for themselves and form their own opinion. Good balance in your comment. You left room for doubt and rationally stated the reasons behind your opinion. Refreshing. Thank you.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  Seconded. Refreshing. I also try to do the same[1] but crocodiletears did much better. [1]: you'll find me pointing out the "fine people on both sides" has been debunked and asking questions about the Hunter Biden disk.
skinkestek 6y ago
> that a Chinese billionaire had slipped Juliani a hard drive containing information that might be incriminating to Biden's Questions: why would the Chinese do that? Or do you mean a Chinese billionaire did it without the involvement of the government? Or do you think their recommendation of Biden is a calculated move to get people to vote for Trump?
- crocodiletears 6y ago
  My understanding is that he was a billionaire on the outs w/Xi's administration, however I only recall that much because it seemed like an interesting assertion at the time, but didn't look into it, nor did I bother remembering the source, because it was while I was skimming a bunch of articles and posts at once trying to keep abreast of the Burisma controversy. So I would take it with a significant grain of salt. Whether or not China would support the action is opaque to me. Trump's trade policies have massively reframed our relationship to the country, but whether or not that's been a positive thing for factions within the CCP is well beyond my knowledge or means to learn.
  - CapricornNoble 6y ago
    Billionaire Miles Guo is an anti-CCP dissident. His website Gnews.org, is the only site I've come across with elicit Hunter Biden footage. I have no idea how/why he has that material, but I think if he sees an opportunity to undermine the CCP's public image by linking them to a corrupt drugged-out American "Princeling", he would capitalize on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guo_Wengui#GNews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guo_Wengui#GNews It's also the only site where I've seen the "BGY Program" mentioned. https://gnews.org/51672/ https://gnews.org/51672/