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You seriously do not think San Francisco and New York have attracted business development? This is yet another version of the classic “No one goes there anymor

You seriously do not think San Francisco and New York have attracted business development? This is yet another version of the classic “No one goes there anymore, it’s too crowded”

mancerayder 6y ago
Businesses and residents are leaving both cities are a cadence unlike anything we've seen in decades. My point is singular: are mayorships concerned with progressive issues the best qualified to stem that tide? The numbers speak for themselves in terms of residents (tax revenue) and businesses (tax revenue and jobs). But there's glee in these comments. People are saying things like, who cares about billionnaires and their office buildings.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  > Businesses and residents are leaving both cities are a cadence unlike anything we've seen in decades There is no data underlying this statement whatsoever.
  - arkis22 6y ago
    I mean... this is obviously incorrect?
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      If you are right then it would by indicated by some data I could read, yes? Show me anything which indicates that the net domestic migration out of SF (proper or metro area) has increased during 2020.
      - arkis22 6y ago
        yes. you are surely more correct that covid has had zero effect on net domestic migration out of SF. a simple google search shows figures. there are lots. rent data is the simplest.
        jeffbee 6y ago
        So, you don't have any data? Just checking that we're in total agreement here. This is exactly why I've long said that the only course that should be required of every college major (or ideally every high school graduate) is basic accounting. The number of things in a system is the cumulative result of all inflows and outflows. The population of a city can fall without any kind of change in the outflow process. By the way population flows are both domestic and international. If you stop foreign in-migration but you don't touch domestic out-migration then the population will decline. By the way SF's population also declined 2000-2009 and sequentially in each of 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005. So unless you have real data showing SF population already fell more than 4%, I also question "unseen in decades".
        arkis22 6y ago
        easy. I googled the population increase during a normal workday. During regular Monday - Friday business hours, the city's population surges by at least 20 percent -- or more than 160,000 people. https://www.kqed.org/lowdown/11327/interactive-how-san-franciscos-population-ebbs-and-flows-during-throughout-the-day https://www.kqed.org/lowdown/11327/interactive-how-san-franc... that number could be wrong. but that 20% beats your 4% by a comfy margin. and that 20% has special impact on the city center that employs many service workers. those people are no longer commuting. if they're no longer commuting, then prices of apartments close to jobs will lose value. then rents will fall. rents are hard data that you apparently refuse to google.
        mancerayder 6y ago
        Not enough. Where are our degrees, he asks. And are your sources matching his political inclinations? Careful, now.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - mancerayder 6y ago
    https://www.syracuse.com/state/2020/08/new-york-named-worst-state-for-economic-outlook-as-nyc-sees-people-fleeing-the-city.html https://www.syracuse.com/state/2020/08/new-york-named-worst-...
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      So, no data at all? I think you've really shown your whole ass to everyone by citing an ALEC position paper. ALEC has rated California as having either the #1 or #2 "worst business climate" in America every year it has published it's rankings, which are merely propaganda for a certain political viewpoint. ALEC's "Rich States, Poor States" paper has been reporting from Oppositeland for decades. https://www.gradingstates.org/alecs-rich-states-poor-states/alec-gets-it-backwards-in-rich-states-poor-states/ https://www.gradingstates.org/alecs-rich-states-poor-states/...
    - mancerayder 6y ago
      That was literally the first links of dozens. I can pull articles from NYT, Crain's, CNBC, you name it, all showing the trend. The budget deficit alone should suffice. The fact that you ascribe a "political agenda" and use the phrase "show your ass" - what is this supposed to mean, that we discovered the enemy in the room? Don't answer that, I don't want to know.
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        I don't want dozens of links to Crain's. I want primary data that shows the current net domestic migration out of New York (or SF, you pick) is unprecedented in decades, which is what you said.

You seriously do not think San Francisco and New York have attracted business development? This is yet another version of the classic “No one goes there anymore, it’s too crowded”

mancerayder 6y ago

Businesses and residents are leaving both cities are a cadence unlike anything we've seen in decades. My point is singular: are mayorships concerned with progressive issues the best qualified to stem that tide? The numbers speak for themselves in terms of residents (tax revenue) and businesses (tax revenue and jobs). But there's glee in these comments. People are saying things like, who cares about billionnaires and their office buildings.

jeffbee 6y ago
> Businesses and residents are leaving both cities are a cadence unlike anything we've seen in decades There is no data underlying this statement whatsoever.
- arkis22 6y ago
  I mean... this is obviously incorrect?
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    If you are right then it would by indicated by some data I could read, yes? Show me anything which indicates that the net domestic migration out of SF (proper or metro area) has increased during 2020.
    - arkis22 6y ago
      yes. you are surely more correct that covid has had zero effect on net domestic migration out of SF. a simple google search shows figures. there are lots. rent data is the simplest.
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        So, you don't have any data? Just checking that we're in total agreement here. This is exactly why I've long said that the only course that should be required of every college major (or ideally every high school graduate) is basic accounting. The number of things in a system is the cumulative result of all inflows and outflows. The population of a city can fall without any kind of change in the outflow process. By the way population flows are both domestic and international. If you stop foreign in-migration but you don't touch domestic out-migration then the population will decline. By the way SF's population also declined 2000-2009 and sequentially in each of 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005. So unless you have real data showing SF population already fell more than 4%, I also question "unseen in decades".
        arkis22 6y ago
        easy. I googled the population increase during a normal workday. During regular Monday - Friday business hours, the city's population surges by at least 20 percent -- or more than 160,000 people. https://www.kqed.org/lowdown/11327/interactive-how-san-franciscos-population-ebbs-and-flows-during-throughout-the-day https://www.kqed.org/lowdown/11327/interactive-how-san-franc... that number could be wrong. but that 20% beats your 4% by a comfy margin. and that 20% has special impact on the city center that employs many service workers. those people are no longer commuting. if they're no longer commuting, then prices of apartments close to jobs will lose value. then rents will fall. rents are hard data that you apparently refuse to google.
        mancerayder 6y ago
        Not enough. Where are our degrees, he asks. And are your sources matching his political inclinations? Careful, now.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- mancerayder 6y ago
  https://www.syracuse.com/state/2020/08/new-york-named-worst-state-for-economic-outlook-as-nyc-sees-people-fleeing-the-city.html https://www.syracuse.com/state/2020/08/new-york-named-worst-...
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    So, no data at all? I think you've really shown your whole ass to everyone by citing an ALEC position paper. ALEC has rated California as having either the #1 or #2 "worst business climate" in America every year it has published it's rankings, which are merely propaganda for a certain political viewpoint. ALEC's "Rich States, Poor States" paper has been reporting from Oppositeland for decades. https://www.gradingstates.org/alecs-rich-states-poor-states/alec-gets-it-backwards-in-rich-states-poor-states/ https://www.gradingstates.org/alecs-rich-states-poor-states/...
  - mancerayder 6y ago
    That was literally the first links of dozens. I can pull articles from NYT, Crain's, CNBC, you name it, all showing the trend. The budget deficit alone should suffice. The fact that you ascribe a "political agenda" and use the phrase "show your ass" - what is this supposed to mean, that we discovered the enemy in the room? Don't answer that, I don't want to know.
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      I don't want dozens of links to Crain's. I want primary data that shows the current net domestic migration out of New York (or SF, you pick) is unprecedented in decades, which is what you said.