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Full disclosure, I bought and ran a Golf TDI on biodiesel for quite a few years. On algae sourced biodiesel: let's talk when it is actually in production. The

Full disclosure, I bought and ran a Golf TDI on biodiesel for quite a few years. On algae sourced biodiesel: let's talk when it is actually in production. They have been talking about algae sourced biodiesel for more than a decade. There was work done by the DOE way back when showing it /should/ be possible at scale. But nobody seems to be able to make the final leap, and that's the rub. So this is nothing new.. people have been making expensive algae fuel for years, and everybody says that the prices will come down with 'just a bit more research'. But no dice yet. Once they really do reach the $80/barrel level then we'll have a revolution at hand, and I'll be first in line to buy another diesel.

brc 16y ago
I've been reading these headlines longer than I've been reading HN. After many disappointments I'm very disillusioned about algae produced fuel. When there's a story about it pumping out of bowsers then I'll get excited. Until then, it's all vaporware as far as I am concerned,
- billswift 16y ago
  For science fiction geeks, remember that research into algae-produced fuels was the setting for Hal Clement's 1950s novel Needle. The idea has been around a long time. Admittedly, the actual research has been pretty sporadic, but there has actually been surprisingly little progress made.
hga 16y ago
According to my father, who watches this sort of thing, they've been working on it since the '70s. In theory it's very promising, but what I gather is that no one has been able to grow algae economically at scale (once you've done that the rest is trivial). Understanding that problem is not too difficult, compare it to, say, corn for ethanol, where some fraction of the plants will be successfully attacked by insects or disease (viri, bacteria, fungi, Wikipedia has a huge list of all four: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maize_diseases http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maize_diseases), where you can hope that the damage will be limited to surrounding plants, a portion of your field, etc. and you have a chance of observing the damage and attempting remediation. Plus humans have been playing this game for thousands of years. With a tank full of algae it's obviously all too easy for that sort of problem to quickly propagate to every desired organism in it or to merely stress them into doing something unfavorable for what you desire (converting food + sunlight into a lot of oil, see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tide for an extreme example). Plus there's the issue of making sure you're growing the organism(s) you desire, contamination of starter cultures of microscopic organisms is all too easy (says I, who had a neat piece of research ruined by this). I'm pretty sure this approach, unlike say, exploitation of oil shale or synthesizing liquid fuels out of coal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process) is not yet one where the sustained real price of oil price is a major factor.
rdtsc 16y ago
> Once they really do reach the $80/barrel level Or once oil reaches $300/barrel
- Someone 16y ago
  Make that $400 or more. If say $50 of the current cost of $300 a barrel is for oil or derivatives, and oil triples in price, the costs increase to $450 a barrel.

brc 16y ago

I've been reading these headlines longer than I've been reading HN. After many disappointments I'm very disillusioned about algae produced fuel. When there's a story about it pumping out of bowsers then I'll get excited. Until then, it's all vaporware as far as I am concerned,

billswift 16y ago
For science fiction geeks, remember that research into algae-produced fuels was the setting for Hal Clement's 1950s novel Needle. The idea has been around a long time. Admittedly, the actual research has been pretty sporadic, but there has actually been surprisingly little progress made.

hga 16y ago

According to my father, who watches this sort of thing, they've been working on it since the '70s. In theory it's very promising, but what I gather is that no one has been able to grow algae economically at scale (once you've done that the rest is trivial). Understanding that problem is not too difficult, compare it to, say, corn for ethanol, where some fraction of the plants will be successfully attacked by insects or disease (viri, bacteria, fungi, Wikipedia has a huge list of all four: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maize_diseases http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maize_diseases), where you can hope that the damage will be limited to surrounding plants, a portion of your field, etc. and you have a chance of observing the damage and attempting remediation. Plus humans have been playing this game for thousands of years. With a tank full of algae it's obviously all too easy for that sort of problem to quickly propagate to every desired organism in it or to merely stress them into doing something unfavorable for what you desire (converting food + sunlight into a lot of oil, see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tide for an extreme example). Plus there's the issue of making sure you're growing the organism(s) you desire, contamination of starter cultures of microscopic organisms is all too easy (says I, who had a neat piece of research ruined by this). I'm pretty sure this approach, unlike say, exploitation of oil shale or synthesizing liquid fuels out of coal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process) is not yet one where the sustained real price of oil price is a major factor.

rdtsc 16y ago

> Once they really do reach the $80/barrel level Or once oil reaches $300/barrel

Someone 16y ago
Make that $400 or more. If say $50 of the current cost of $300 a barrel is for oil or derivatives, and oil triples in price, the costs increase to $450 a barrel.