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IQ is a measure of how willing you are to do something extremely boring and pointless. A perfect predictor for success in the average office job and education.

by konjin 6y ago

H8crilA 6y ago
Also correlates with lifespan, probability of divorce, crime. All such boring stuff. PS. I am wondering whether it correlates with the belief in IQ testing itself :)
- konjin 6y ago
  >Also correlates with lifespan, probability of divorce, crime. All such boring stuff. Yes, doing pointless soul crushing work makes you the money you need to create the next generation of automatons that do the same.
  - darkhorse13 6y ago
    For a lack of a better word, your ideas seem really misguided to me.
    - bongobongo 6y ago
      They are ultimately correct though.
    - konjin 6y ago
      Describing reality is not disgusting.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  So does wealth. Yet I'd hope that people would shudder at school admissions and hiring pipelines that explicitly separate people based on wealth and choose the richest ones.
  - chongli 6y ago
    Tons of schools separate implicitly by wealth simply by charging high tuition and not offering (enough) financial aid to every student who can’t afford it.
    - tartoran 6y ago
      You’d be surprised at what lenghts rich people go in order to reduce the tuition or get financial aid for their offspring. The rich are well informed and know how to use all the loopholes..
    - UncleMeat 6y ago
      Yes. And many people agree that's bad. I'm not saying this doesn't happen. I'm saying that "High IQ is correlated with lower crime rates and higher test scores" shouldn't be the end of the discussion when people are arguing that IQ should be used to divide populations in public policy and corporate behavior.
  - nkingsy 6y ago
    I’d prefer it to be explicit. Would be nicer for the really smart poor kids who just miss the genius level required to get in to a Harvard without being rich. I’d rather think “if my family had money, I would’ve gotten in” than “I’m just not good enough”. These silent double standards are a curse. Saying it out loud is the first step to stopping it.
PaulHoule 6y ago
I think Raven is fun, but Raven is just 60 questions you can cram on.
vergessenmir 6y ago
I think what you're referring to is conscientiousness, the ability to stick to a task to completion regardless of how exciting it is. So you can get people with higher intelligence and low conscientiousness being overtaken by less smart people high in conscientiousness who actually finish the task. My understanding is that with a higher IQ you finish a task quicker . So smarter people tend to get to success quicker but doesn't mean that lower IQ folk are denied successes if both groups have similar levels of conscientiousness. IQ is not the strongest predictor of success.
- naveen99 6y ago
  only if lower iq correlated with longevity. Also success compounds. You want faster compounding.
bko 6y ago
It would be more accurate to say "Performance on an IQ test" as opposed to "IQ". That's the main criticism I have of IQ. So if you do well on tests, then you probably would do well on the IQ test as well as tests in school, which means you are more likely to have attained a higher level of educations, which is associated with a higher income. To actually prove to me that IQ is a thing, you would have to show me that what you call IQ is innate. Meaning that you can't do better on an IQ test if you study, which I don't believe is true. All written tests I have ever taken have tricks or patterns that you can exploit after some practice. And then you'd have to show me that IQ is a better predictor than some other rote test to tease out general test taking ability or ability to sit still. A lot of people just work off the basis that IQ is a thing that we can measure, which I don't believe to be true, hence the pseudoscientific swindle
- rbecker 6y ago
  > To actually prove to me that IQ is a thing, you would have to show me that what you call IQ is innate. "Twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73% with the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
  - bko 6y ago
    I wasn't talking about innate in the context of heredity. I meant produced by the mind as opposed to experience. I am not convinced that someone can't learn to score better on IQ tests through practice
- chongli 6y ago
  To actually prove to me that IQ is a thing, you would have to show me that what you call IQ is innate This does not follow. IQ is a thing because they test children on it without warning and without any prep and their performance on these tasks they’ve never seen before in their lives predicts their performance in school better than many other tests. You can’t say the same thing about, say, a language test for a child unfamiliar with the language because the kid won’t understand it at all. The IQ test is designed to be as unrelated to experience as possible in order to measure the capacity for abstract thinking and the ability to solve novel problems when you first encounter them. Since you’re undermining a test of your ability to solve something novel, studying for an IQ test is cheating.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
WhompingWindows 6y ago
IQ is a psychometric number derived by a standardized instrument to measure some form of intelligence. "Boring" is a feeling that has as much to do with intelligence as all the other feelings like sad, happy, etc. "Pointless" is a value judgment you're making right here that's extremely subjective, each person can find purpose in their job if they re-frame and tell themselves a better story about it. I don't think IQ is a perfect predictor for basically anything. It's a very myopic metric that helps explain, but any statistician today is going to use dozens of variables in their model, not just one.

IQ is a measure of how willing you are to do something extremely boring and pointless. A perfect predictor for success in the average office job and education.

by konjin 6y ago

IQ is a measure of how willing you are to do something extremely boring and pointless. A perfect predictor for success in the average office job and education.

H8crilA 6y ago

Also correlates with lifespan, probability of divorce, crime. All such boring stuff. PS. I am wondering whether it correlates with the belief in IQ testing itself :)

konjin 6y ago
>Also correlates with lifespan, probability of divorce, crime. All such boring stuff. Yes, doing pointless soul crushing work makes you the money you need to create the next generation of automatons that do the same.
- darkhorse13 6y ago
  For a lack of a better word, your ideas seem really misguided to me.
  - bongobongo 6y ago
    They are ultimately correct though.
  - konjin 6y ago
    Describing reality is not disgusting.
UncleMeat 6y ago
So does wealth. Yet I'd hope that people would shudder at school admissions and hiring pipelines that explicitly separate people based on wealth and choose the richest ones.
- chongli 6y ago
  Tons of schools separate implicitly by wealth simply by charging high tuition and not offering (enough) financial aid to every student who can’t afford it.
  - tartoran 6y ago
    You’d be surprised at what lenghts rich people go in order to reduce the tuition or get financial aid for their offspring. The rich are well informed and know how to use all the loopholes..
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    Yes. And many people agree that's bad. I'm not saying this doesn't happen. I'm saying that "High IQ is correlated with lower crime rates and higher test scores" shouldn't be the end of the discussion when people are arguing that IQ should be used to divide populations in public policy and corporate behavior.
- nkingsy 6y ago
  I’d prefer it to be explicit. Would be nicer for the really smart poor kids who just miss the genius level required to get in to a Harvard without being rich. I’d rather think “if my family had money, I would’ve gotten in” than “I’m just not good enough”. These silent double standards are a curse. Saying it out loud is the first step to stopping it.

PaulHoule 6y ago

I think Raven is fun, but Raven is just 60 questions you can cram on.

vergessenmir 6y ago

I think what you're referring to is conscientiousness, the ability to stick to a task to completion regardless of how exciting it is. So you can get people with higher intelligence and low conscientiousness being overtaken by less smart people high in conscientiousness who actually finish the task. My understanding is that with a higher IQ you finish a task quicker . So smarter people tend to get to success quicker but doesn't mean that lower IQ folk are denied successes if both groups have similar levels of conscientiousness. IQ is not the strongest predictor of success.

naveen99 6y ago
only if lower iq correlated with longevity. Also success compounds. You want faster compounding.

bko 6y ago

It would be more accurate to say "Performance on an IQ test" as opposed to "IQ". That's the main criticism I have of IQ. So if you do well on tests, then you probably would do well on the IQ test as well as tests in school, which means you are more likely to have attained a higher level of educations, which is associated with a higher income. To actually prove to me that IQ is a thing, you would have to show me that what you call IQ is innate. Meaning that you can't do better on an IQ test if you study, which I don't believe is true. All written tests I have ever taken have tricks or patterns that you can exploit after some practice. And then you'd have to show me that IQ is a better predictor than some other rote test to tease out general test taking ability or ability to sit still. A lot of people just work off the basis that IQ is a thing that we can measure, which I don't believe to be true, hence the pseudoscientific swindle

rbecker 6y ago
> To actually prove to me that IQ is a thing, you would have to show me that what you call IQ is innate. "Twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73% with the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
- bko 6y ago
  I wasn't talking about innate in the context of heredity. I meant produced by the mind as opposed to experience. I am not convinced that someone can't learn to score better on IQ tests through practice
chongli 6y ago
To actually prove to me that IQ is a thing, you would have to show me that what you call IQ is innate This does not follow. IQ is a thing because they test children on it without warning and without any prep and their performance on these tasks they’ve never seen before in their lives predicts their performance in school better than many other tests. You can’t say the same thing about, say, a language test for a child unfamiliar with the language because the kid won’t understand it at all. The IQ test is designed to be as unrelated to experience as possible in order to measure the capacity for abstract thinking and the ability to solve novel problems when you first encounter them. Since you’re undermining a test of your ability to solve something novel, studying for an IQ test is cheating.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

WhompingWindows 6y ago

IQ is a psychometric number derived by a standardized instrument to measure some form of intelligence. "Boring" is a feeling that has as much to do with intelligence as all the other feelings like sad, happy, etc. "Pointless" is a value judgment you're making right here that's extremely subjective, each person can find purpose in their job if they re-frame and tell themselves a better story about it. I don't think IQ is a perfect predictor for basically anything. It's a very myopic metric that helps explain, but any statistician today is going to use dozens of variables in their model, not just one.