7 ms·
Is there a benchmark where it blows X11 out of the water?
by verroq 6y ago
Is there a benchmark where it blows X11 out of the water?
- ddevault 6y agoI am not aware of any up-to-date benchmarks which make a fair comparison (i.e. not just benchmarking GNOME), but I am intimately familiar with the technology and its performance characteristics.
- taeric 6y agoGnome is a fair comparison. Since it is the main comparison for many users, it is the most fair comparison. Otherwise, this is starting the benchmark wars with meaningless comparisons at the outset. :(
- ddevault 6y agoIt's not a fair comparison. You're benchmarking GNOME, not Wayland, and making generalizations about Wayland based on GNOME benchmarks is a false equivalency. Is GNOME on Wayland worse than GNOME on X11? Perhaps. Is Wayland worse than X11, based on that answer? No.
- taeric 6y agoI get your point. But until those benchmarks at least correlate with behavior users see, they are not worth much.
- ddevault 6y agoI don't know what you're trying to say, outside of some vauge attempt to avoid admitting a mistake.
- taeric 6y agoI'm saying that we get your point. But you seem to be missing ours. Nobody cares about benchmarks that a) don't exist or b) are not indicative of what folks will experience.
- ddevault 6y agoObviously? The disconnect is that you seem to think that we can draw conclusions from nonexistent benchmarks.
- taeric 6y agoYou are asking us to literally draw conclusions from hypothetical benchmarks where the opposite results will exist. I am sympathetic to the idea that things needed to start over. I'm annoyed with the lack of honesty and self critical approach. As framed by you, Wayland is above criticism. Which immediately raises my suspicions.
- ddevault 6y agoI have not said that Wayland is above criticism. I have said that the criticism which has been raised thus far is largely invalid, and that the benchmark you pointed to is flawed. If you insist on using flawed benchmarks as evidence for the inferiority of a technology simply because no less-flawed benchmark exists to provide a counterpoint, you are wrong.
- michaelmrose 6y agoWhat percentage of Wayland users are on Gnome? It seems likely to me that Gnome is likely to be 90-99% of peoples experience with Wayland.
- ddevault 6y agoSo what? What percentage of Wayland desktops are on Linux? Do comments on Wayland generalize to comments on Linux? What percentage of Linux installations are on x86_64? Do comments about Linux generalize to x86_64? No, obviously they don't. So, knock it off.
- sergeykish 6y agoProtocol limits what is possible. Legacy defines performance. Gnome is X11 first. Wlroots in Wayland first. It should be possible to optimize Gnome. Wayland was created because of horrible X11 performance [1]. It is not Waylands prime time yet but X.Org still works and maintained. Phoronix.com should have checked contributions [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQh_DmDLKQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQh_DmDLKQ [2] https://github.com/freedesktop/xorg-xserver/graphs/commit-activity https://github.com/freedesktop/xorg-xserver/graphs/commit-ac...
- taeric 6y agoThese are appealing arguments. But our industry is flooded with appealing arguments losing to pragmatic compromises.
- sergeykish 6y agoOur industry is flooded with critics who do not contribute.
- taeric 6y agoMost of the pragmatic solutions were built by contributing to existing things, not starting over. Think risc v cisc. It isn't that there are not points to be gained from the alternatives. It is that leaving the past behind is not necessarily the best way to get progress. And even when enough time passes that the alternative gains ground, it often looks more like what it was replacing than less.
- sergeykish 6y agoYou clearly have not watched video by X.Org developer, have not you? I expect you are better informed, worked a lot with X.Org codebase and can show some links on your commits. Or if you truly believe there is nothing wrong with X.Org you would become maintainer. > My (often incorrect) views and opinions are my own and not those of anyone I currently or have ever worked for. Please help me make them more informed (and hopefully more correct) whenever you can!