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So, Russia under sanctions, for annexation of Crimea, should just be left alone to leave their lives? Next time, if they decide to annex some other part of Ukra

So, Russia under sanctions, for annexation of Crimea, should just be left alone to leave their lives? Next time, if they decide to annex some other part of Ukraine, or maybe Poland this time, they should also be left to live their lives? Sanctions are not punishments. They are just a way to say – you're an asshole, and neither us nor our allies are going to play with you anymore.

fiblye 6y ago
I mean, taking steps to deter a country from annexing or triggering a war makes sense. But the sanctions against Iran are mainly based on old grudges. Pretty much nobody even knows why they exist beyond “they’re bad.”
- dsabanin 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >On 1 May 2018 the IAEA reiterated its 2015 report, saying it had found no credible evidence of nuclear weapons activity in Iran after 2009
- umvi 6y ago
  I always thought it was because Iran hates Israel and has openly stated their goal to destroy and dissolve it. That paired with efforts to develop nuclear weapons = sanctions. It's probably more nuanced than that, but that was my basic understanding.
sleepyhead 6y ago
The country that invaded the neighbouring countries of Iran and killed hundred of thousands of people is saying Iran is an asshole and needs to be sanctioned. Got it. Regardless of what you think of the regime in Iran, please do educate yourself and at least try to look at the situation objectively.
- dsabanin 6y ago
  It's very hard to have compassion to a theocratic authoritarian dictatorship regime (Ali Khamenei is in power since 1981). It's also very hard to see them as victims or as the good guys. Sorry.
  - sleepyhead 6y ago
    No one is saying you should have compassion towards the Iranian regime. No one is saying you should see them as victims. No one is saying you should see them as the good guys. The only thing you should be sorry about is not trying to accurately understand the replies you are getting here or look objectively at the situation. BTW since you like whatabouism with your argument regarding Russia: Please do compare the Iranian and Saudi Arabian regimes for me; one is an enemy with sanctions and the other an ally. Internally they are not that different. Externally there is a major difference though: only one is engaging in a hostile war in another country which has resulted in civilian deaths and famine. While there are claims to be made about Iranian foreign interference it is nowhere near that level. So again please take some minutes to ponder objectively how these countries are treated.
    - dsabanin 6y ago
      I am quite familiar with the situation between Iran and US, and most of my life I've been on your side of this argument. World politics is very complex with lots of nuance, historical context and long-running grudges. It is also highly subjective, in a sense that every country / group of allied countries have their own view of the historical events and try to disseminate those views as wide as possible. As a result, I've decided to judge countries by the authoritarianism of their regimes and cruelty of their laws. If country's government is treating their own citizens like shit without rights, I do not expect them to treat people on the outside any better, regardless of how they present themselves. Thus, I do not, as an individual human being, want to see these countries / regimes to gain any more power externally. So far, this approach for me had made most sense. As a side note, look at the current list of best friends of a corrupt regime in Russia: Iran, North Korea, China, Philippines, Venezuela, up until recently - Turkey. Every dictatorship in the world is on their list of friends. Same with Iran. "When the character of a man is not clear, look at their friends." Regarding whataboutism and Russia, I want to remind you that my reply to the OP was not about Iranian sanctions, but was about sanctions as a political instrument overall. For me the most prominent case lately were sanctions against Russia, so that's what I used as an example. I'm very familiar with the situation in Russia and even though sanctions indeed antagonized the regime there, it did make them stop and think whether they want to keep escalating. It's hard to imagine what over appropriate response should've been to annexation of the Crimea, downing of the Malaysian Boeing and sending troops and equipment to create essential a civil war in a big region of Ukraine.
xtracto 6y ago
Aah Pax Americana [1]. It feels so warm and cosy knowing that the benevolent regime has my butt covered. Look. I love the US (being a Mexican, I consider Mex/US relationship like a bug brother / little brother one) . But darn, it seems the pax-anericana epoch is getting weaker and weaker, and the US is just trying to cling at the last straws of influence that its left. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana
- dsabanin 6y ago
  Can't wait to see what Pax China is going to like!
  - Dahoon 6y ago
    Can't be worse.
    - dsabanin 6y ago
      I think Uighur, Tibetan and Hong Kong people might disagree.
      - gdy 6y ago
        They might want ask the people of Iraq and Yemen.
    - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
      The unfortunate thing is, while no one's really that happy with how the US is running things, they've probably been one of the least bad empires in history. (Post-slavery) America Vs. say Britain? I know what I'd prefer
gdy 6y ago
"So, Russia under sanctions, for annexation of Crimea, should just be left alone to leave their lives?" "Sanctions are not punishments. They are just a way to say – you're an asshole" So tell me why are the American sanctions directed at the people of Crimea? [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_Ukrainian_crisis#Sanctions_against_Crimea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during...

fiblye 6y ago

I mean, taking steps to deter a country from annexing or triggering a war makes sense. But the sanctions against Iran are mainly based on old grudges. Pretty much nobody even knows why they exist beyond “they’re bad.”

dsabanin 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >On 1 May 2018 the IAEA reiterated its 2015 report, saying it had found no credible evidence of nuclear weapons activity in Iran after 2009
umvi 6y ago
I always thought it was because Iran hates Israel and has openly stated their goal to destroy and dissolve it. That paired with efforts to develop nuclear weapons = sanctions. It's probably more nuanced than that, but that was my basic understanding.

sleepyhead 6y ago

The country that invaded the neighbouring countries of Iran and killed hundred of thousands of people is saying Iran is an asshole and needs to be sanctioned. Got it. Regardless of what you think of the regime in Iran, please do educate yourself and at least try to look at the situation objectively.

dsabanin 6y ago
It's very hard to have compassion to a theocratic authoritarian dictatorship regime (Ali Khamenei is in power since 1981). It's also very hard to see them as victims or as the good guys. Sorry.
- sleepyhead 6y ago
  No one is saying you should have compassion towards the Iranian regime. No one is saying you should see them as victims. No one is saying you should see them as the good guys. The only thing you should be sorry about is not trying to accurately understand the replies you are getting here or look objectively at the situation. BTW since you like whatabouism with your argument regarding Russia: Please do compare the Iranian and Saudi Arabian regimes for me; one is an enemy with sanctions and the other an ally. Internally they are not that different. Externally there is a major difference though: only one is engaging in a hostile war in another country which has resulted in civilian deaths and famine. While there are claims to be made about Iranian foreign interference it is nowhere near that level. So again please take some minutes to ponder objectively how these countries are treated.
  - dsabanin 6y ago
    I am quite familiar with the situation between Iran and US, and most of my life I've been on your side of this argument. World politics is very complex with lots of nuance, historical context and long-running grudges. It is also highly subjective, in a sense that every country / group of allied countries have their own view of the historical events and try to disseminate those views as wide as possible. As a result, I've decided to judge countries by the authoritarianism of their regimes and cruelty of their laws. If country's government is treating their own citizens like shit without rights, I do not expect them to treat people on the outside any better, regardless of how they present themselves. Thus, I do not, as an individual human being, want to see these countries / regimes to gain any more power externally. So far, this approach for me had made most sense. As a side note, look at the current list of best friends of a corrupt regime in Russia: Iran, North Korea, China, Philippines, Venezuela, up until recently - Turkey. Every dictatorship in the world is on their list of friends. Same with Iran. "When the character of a man is not clear, look at their friends." Regarding whataboutism and Russia, I want to remind you that my reply to the OP was not about Iranian sanctions, but was about sanctions as a political instrument overall. For me the most prominent case lately were sanctions against Russia, so that's what I used as an example. I'm very familiar with the situation in Russia and even though sanctions indeed antagonized the regime there, it did make them stop and think whether they want to keep escalating. It's hard to imagine what over appropriate response should've been to annexation of the Crimea, downing of the Malaysian Boeing and sending troops and equipment to create essential a civil war in a big region of Ukraine.

xtracto 6y ago

Aah Pax Americana [1]. It feels so warm and cosy knowing that the benevolent regime has my butt covered. Look. I love the US (being a Mexican, I consider Mex/US relationship like a bug brother / little brother one) . But darn, it seems the pax-anericana epoch is getting weaker and weaker, and the US is just trying to cling at the last straws of influence that its left. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana

dsabanin 6y ago
Can't wait to see what Pax China is going to like!
- Dahoon 6y ago
  Can't be worse.
  - dsabanin 6y ago
    I think Uighur, Tibetan and Hong Kong people might disagree.
    - gdy 6y ago
      They might want ask the people of Iraq and Yemen.
  - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
    The unfortunate thing is, while no one's really that happy with how the US is running things, they've probably been one of the least bad empires in history. (Post-slavery) America Vs. say Britain? I know what I'd prefer

gdy 6y ago

"So, Russia under sanctions, for annexation of Crimea, should just be left alone to leave their lives?" "Sanctions are not punishments. They are just a way to say – you're an asshole" So tell me why are the American sanctions directed at the people of Crimea? [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_Ukrainian_crisis#Sanctions_against_Crimea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during...