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Clearly this information should never have been allowed to be stored digitally. Those to blame are those which neglected to put the necessary precautions in pl

Clearly this information should never have been allowed to be stored digitally. Those to blame are those which neglected to put the necessary precautions in place. Where I come from, if you forget to lock your car, police can collect the key and fine you for your ignorance. Same should apply when health data gets lost. The patients have virtually no control over what happens with their data after someone entered it into a system. So all the mishap which happen need to be blamed on those which run these systems. Not doing so is a pretty blatant attempt of ignoring responsibilities.

Const-me 6y ago
> Where I come from, if you forget to lock your car, police can collect the key and fine you for your ignorance. Where I live, people sometimes intentionally leave keys in their unlocked cars, for convenience of people who sharing a parking space.
- C19is20 6y ago
  My car was open and had keys in...it got stolen and found 20km away. No damage. Several other cars in the street had broken windows and signs of attempted hot-wiring. Cost to me - time. Cost to everyone else... they're all still pretty livid. Even more so that my car was about 15th in a line of 20. If it had have been first - different outcome. YMMV.
  - nogabebop23 6y ago
    not sure I would leave the keys in my unlocked car, but when I lived in a city with a lot more petty crime many people left their doors unlocked and some spare change in the cup holder. Everyday it was gone but no other damage vs. smashed windows for no gain. It pissed me off but others saw it as equivalent to pay for parking
  - mlang23 6y ago
    You were lucky. Dont you think your analysis is a bit egocentrical though? What if there was a major accident during that 20km drive? What if someone was killed with your unlocked car? Is the damage to your property still your only concern?
- blackbrokkoli 6y ago
  And that is something you would like to accept as a fair reason why someone in your family was ran over by a random teenager who found a driveable car standing around?
  - Const-me 6y ago
    Teenagers don't do that here. At least locals. In the news, I remember a story about drunk tourists finding a drivable electric golf-cart standing around. It's much less likely to run over a person than drive into the sea. Which they did. None was injured (by luck, that particular cliff wasn't high enough), the court forced them to pay for destroyed property.
mmm_grayons 6y ago
I think you're right. If there's one thing we've learned, it's that all information which is stored digitally will be leaked at one point or another. We need to focus on storing less information wherever possible. Also, where do you live? I've never heard of that treatment being given to someone who forgot to lock his car. On the other hand, when people lock keys in their car, policemen are generally happy to help.
- mlang23 6y ago
  Something similar applies here with weapons. If you are a legal weapon owner, it is expected of you that you take care so that nobody can just pick up your gun and start shooting. You need to store it unloaded, munitions stored separately, and all that jazz. The same thinking goes for the unlocked car thing? What if a child gets into your car, starts it up and drives over their siblings? In a way, the car owner would be responsible because they didnt ensure the car was properly locked. Same thinking should apply for sensitive data. If it gets stolen, it should always be the responsibility of those which have been charged with taking care of it.
  - mmm_grayons 6y ago
    More or less true; those who hold data bear responsibility for it. The biggest issue is that unlike, say, bank robberies, people can steal data from beyond the long arm of the law. As a sidenote, where do you live that firearms owners are obligated to store them unloaded? They're of little use that way. I grew up around loaded guns all over the house, not hidden at all; I knew that if I ever so much as touched one, my father would tan my hide beyond belief. More importantly, I knew I'd just end up hurting myself or others.
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    One thing here is that sensitive data getting stolen does not necessarily mean that the data controller was negligent with their safeguarding. There definitely are highly publicised cases that happened just because of gross negligence in handling that data. But to some extent, every system is vulnerable, and there are also attacks that are, using your gun and car analogies as an example, the equivalent of stealing the gun from your safe or taking your car at gunpoint while you're stopped at a red light.
pessimizer 6y ago
> Clearly this information should never have been allowed to be stored digitally. I've been aggressively informed, repeatedly, that since paper is old and computers are new, you're basically a witch-burning, Galileo-jailing Luddite caveman who is afraid of fire if you notice that the failure modes enabled by some computerization are multiple orders of magnitude more catastrophic than the analog alternatives. I mean, this is actually far worse than if they kept all of this information on paper records, stored all the records at one unguarded warehouse, and a burglar was allowed to pull a truck up to that warehouse and spend all day stealing them. It's worse than if they hadn't kept records at all.

Const-me 6y ago

> Where I come from, if you forget to lock your car, police can collect the key and fine you for your ignorance. Where I live, people sometimes intentionally leave keys in their unlocked cars, for convenience of people who sharing a parking space.

C19is20 6y ago
My car was open and had keys in...it got stolen and found 20km away. No damage. Several other cars in the street had broken windows and signs of attempted hot-wiring. Cost to me - time. Cost to everyone else... they're all still pretty livid. Even more so that my car was about 15th in a line of 20. If it had have been first - different outcome. YMMV.
- nogabebop23 6y ago
  not sure I would leave the keys in my unlocked car, but when I lived in a city with a lot more petty crime many people left their doors unlocked and some spare change in the cup holder. Everyday it was gone but no other damage vs. smashed windows for no gain. It pissed me off but others saw it as equivalent to pay for parking
- mlang23 6y ago
  You were lucky. Dont you think your analysis is a bit egocentrical though? What if there was a major accident during that 20km drive? What if someone was killed with your unlocked car? Is the damage to your property still your only concern?
blackbrokkoli 6y ago
And that is something you would like to accept as a fair reason why someone in your family was ran over by a random teenager who found a driveable car standing around?
- Const-me 6y ago
  Teenagers don't do that here. At least locals. In the news, I remember a story about drunk tourists finding a drivable electric golf-cart standing around. It's much less likely to run over a person than drive into the sea. Which they did. None was injured (by luck, that particular cliff wasn't high enough), the court forced them to pay for destroyed property.

mmm_grayons 6y ago

I think you're right. If there's one thing we've learned, it's that all information which is stored digitally will be leaked at one point or another. We need to focus on storing less information wherever possible. Also, where do you live? I've never heard of that treatment being given to someone who forgot to lock his car. On the other hand, when people lock keys in their car, policemen are generally happy to help.

mlang23 6y ago
Something similar applies here with weapons. If you are a legal weapon owner, it is expected of you that you take care so that nobody can just pick up your gun and start shooting. You need to store it unloaded, munitions stored separately, and all that jazz. The same thinking goes for the unlocked car thing? What if a child gets into your car, starts it up and drives over their siblings? In a way, the car owner would be responsible because they didnt ensure the car was properly locked. Same thinking should apply for sensitive data. If it gets stolen, it should always be the responsibility of those which have been charged with taking care of it.
- mmm_grayons 6y ago
  More or less true; those who hold data bear responsibility for it. The biggest issue is that unlike, say, bank robberies, people can steal data from beyond the long arm of the law. As a sidenote, where do you live that firearms owners are obligated to store them unloaded? They're of little use that way. I grew up around loaded guns all over the house, not hidden at all; I knew that if I ever so much as touched one, my father would tan my hide beyond belief. More importantly, I knew I'd just end up hurting myself or others.
- PeterisP 6y ago
  One thing here is that sensitive data getting stolen does not necessarily mean that the data controller was negligent with their safeguarding. There definitely are highly publicised cases that happened just because of gross negligence in handling that data. But to some extent, every system is vulnerable, and there are also attacks that are, using your gun and car analogies as an example, the equivalent of stealing the gun from your safe or taking your car at gunpoint while you're stopped at a red light.

pessimizer 6y ago

> Clearly this information should never have been allowed to be stored digitally. I've been aggressively informed, repeatedly, that since paper is old and computers are new, you're basically a witch-burning, Galileo-jailing Luddite caveman who is afraid of fire if you notice that the failure modes enabled by some computerization are multiple orders of magnitude more catastrophic than the analog alternatives. I mean, this is actually far worse than if they kept all of this information on paper records, stored all the records at one unguarded warehouse, and a burglar was allowed to pull a truck up to that warehouse and spend all day stealing them. It's worse than if they hadn't kept records at all.