Yes please don't read that as an implication that by default that 1) All religious people are moral 2) all non-religious are not. My point was more of the fact

Yes please don't read that as an implication that by default that 1) All religious people are moral 2) all non-religious are not. My point was more of the fact of the outlook the two views seem to produce. The reality is Atheism did not produce an MLK or a Ghandi, rather it has produced Nihilism and Nietzsche from its fruits. There is nothing wrong with that, without ying there cannot be yang. I was just highlighting (in my other post) that as observers we can actually choose how we see reality. Some of that choice may appear delusional, or may in fact be delusional, but does not make it any less real to the observer. Take for example the monks that claim enlightenment, they believe suffering is an illusion and that basically you just have to not believe in suffering to not suffer. This could be deluded thinking and sounds crazy on the surface, until you see one of them trance and ignore the most extreme pain. Their delusion manifests itself into reality just by their will. There is similar delusional thinking that comes from Atheistic points of view and they have had real world manifestations. I am hesitant to name some of them due to the fact that it will look like I am claiming them atheism is not a moral choice. Which is not the intent.