6 ms·

I think the long term solution for this problem is the developers of open source software like the bit torrent client, youtube-dl and other similar software wil

I think the long term solution for this problem is the developers of open source software like the bit torrent client, youtube-dl and other similar software will have to host their code outside of the reach of DMCA regualation. That will usually mean something like Github like site hosted in Russia, China or some other bloc where DMCA does not apply. Right now, lots of users in the US scientific community use Scihub or how millions of US students use libgen, millions of users of open source software will have to get used to a non US controlled domain to get access to their software. Also development of these software will be done in the shadows so as to avoid the reach of the DMCA.

aesyondu 6y ago
> I think the long term solution for this problem is the developers of open source software like the bit torrent client, youtube-dl and other similar software will have to host their code outside of the reach of DMCA regualation I'm not sure about that. I think the real long term solution is to have a decentralized version of YouTube/video publishing platform that is resistant (invulnerable?) to censorship. I'm not saying that it's not difficult, or even impossible, but I would love to see more discussion regarding true web decentralization, not legal semantics.
- deadalus 6y ago
  LBRY.tv is a decentralized Youtube alternative. Another one is : bittube.tv
- lemagedurage 6y ago
  Zeronet [0] has implemented a decentralized website model, a Github alternative on there could be more resilient, though it does require additional client software to run. I believe the site owner can update their decentralized website with their cryptographic keys. Perhaps WebTorrent [1] can be the basis for an in-browser implementation, along with service workers to stay cached and self-update without requiring a running host. Talk about serverless :^) [0] https://zeronet.io/ https://zeronet.io/ [1] https://webtorrent.io/ https://webtorrent.io/
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    Zeronet is very underrated, though I've never been able to exactly grok their high level architecture, for some reason.
clusterfish 6y ago
Relying on other countries can't ever be a long term solution. That pirate bay and scihub are still around, that their authors are walking around freely, is a miracle that should not be taken for granted. We need to work on fixing these problems in our own countries. We need to talk about the freedoms we care about, put a good brand to those freedoms and win popular attention and enshrine those freedoms into law. And build a society that depends on those freedoms so much that rolling them back would be unthinkable. That would be an actual long term solution. It is hard but if we all contribute, we can do it. Probably.
- Reelin 6y ago
  I agree in principle, but a much easier fix would be to host such code on a tor hidden service. That way the physical server can be located more or less wherever. Then we just have to normalize the use of Tor so that banning it becomes unthinkable ...
  - xg15 6y ago
    In other words, instead of trying to change the laws, which is the whole idea of a democracy, just give up on laws altogether.
    - colinmhayes 6y ago
      The vast majority of people don't give a shit about this, so the money being pumped by rights holders will win out.
- d0mine 6y ago
  > That pirate bay and scihub are still around, that their authors are walking around freely Let's not equate these sites. scihub gives people what they are likely already paid for. Academic publishing business is a fraud. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PriwCi6SzLo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PriwCi6SzLo (recent video on the topic that I liked)
  - deleted 6y ago
nialv7 6y ago
Hosting the git repository on ipfs might be a solution.
- trickstra 6y ago
  There is also git-ssb
- nybble41 6y ago
  It appears there is already a recent copy of the Git repository hosted on IPFS: http://gateway.ipfs.io/ipfs/QmNaDfmdDdahE2c4jxSuptSxMefQEZPwuhUFt1Y9WWfB1J/youtube-dl.git http://gateway.ipfs.io/ipfs/QmNaDfmdDdahE2c4jxSuptSxMefQEZPw... The most recent commit is from October 23.
justinclift 6y ago
> outside of the reach of DMCA regualation. What's the latency to the Moon again? :)
- anticensor 6y ago
  2.5s is the minimum roundtrip. Add server and satellite hops and you get something closer to 3s minimum. Every time.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    Thanks. Sounds like it'd be workable as a backup target then, but would probably suck being the primary place to grab source code. That being said, maybe it would be ok as a primary location if there are more localised caches (eg lower response times) commonly available.
    - ColanR 6y ago
      It's git - what do you need low-latency for? Download directories, trees, as the initial requests, then send a second request for the source code you want to download. Then the bottleneck is download speed instead of latency.
      - justinclift 6y ago
        For just git, sure. For a web application to present it (eg Gitea, GitLab, etc), then the lower latency would be helpful. ;)
        ColanR 6y ago
        eh, web applications are overrated. :)
  - m4rtink 6y ago
    Not a problem for Git or even PR workflow then.
achinese 6y ago
Nah, that won't work. China is a member of WTO and follows the TRIPS agreement. Therefore, I guess the RIAA will just go court in China, and they can still take down any repository which they'd like to. Lots of companies from the western country have won intellectual lawsuits in China. Sites like sci-hub works in a way tricky manner. You can't expect an ordinary company which is in another country to do so, because they are still inside the framework of the international capitalism.

aesyondu 6y ago

> I think the long term solution for this problem is the developers of open source software like the bit torrent client, youtube-dl and other similar software will have to host their code outside of the reach of DMCA regualation I'm not sure about that. I think the real long term solution is to have a decentralized version of YouTube/video publishing platform that is resistant (invulnerable?) to censorship. I'm not saying that it's not difficult, or even impossible, but I would love to see more discussion regarding true web decentralization, not legal semantics.

deadalus 6y ago
LBRY.tv is a decentralized Youtube alternative. Another one is : bittube.tv
lemagedurage 6y ago
Zeronet [0] has implemented a decentralized website model, a Github alternative on there could be more resilient, though it does require additional client software to run. I believe the site owner can update their decentralized website with their cryptographic keys. Perhaps WebTorrent [1] can be the basis for an in-browser implementation, along with service workers to stay cached and self-update without requiring a running host. Talk about serverless :^) [0] https://zeronet.io/ https://zeronet.io/ [1] https://webtorrent.io/ https://webtorrent.io/
- StavrosK 6y ago
  Zeronet is very underrated, though I've never been able to exactly grok their high level architecture, for some reason.

clusterfish 6y ago

Relying on other countries can't ever be a long term solution. That pirate bay and scihub are still around, that their authors are walking around freely, is a miracle that should not be taken for granted. We need to work on fixing these problems in our own countries. We need to talk about the freedoms we care about, put a good brand to those freedoms and win popular attention and enshrine those freedoms into law. And build a society that depends on those freedoms so much that rolling them back would be unthinkable. That would be an actual long term solution. It is hard but if we all contribute, we can do it. Probably.

Reelin 6y ago
I agree in principle, but a much easier fix would be to host such code on a tor hidden service. That way the physical server can be located more or less wherever. Then we just have to normalize the use of Tor so that banning it becomes unthinkable ...
- xg15 6y ago
  In other words, instead of trying to change the laws, which is the whole idea of a democracy, just give up on laws altogether.
  - colinmhayes 6y ago
    The vast majority of people don't give a shit about this, so the money being pumped by rights holders will win out.
d0mine 6y ago
> That pirate bay and scihub are still around, that their authors are walking around freely Let's not equate these sites. scihub gives people what they are likely already paid for. Academic publishing business is a fraud. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PriwCi6SzLo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PriwCi6SzLo (recent video on the topic that I liked)
- deleted 6y ago

nialv7 6y ago

Hosting the git repository on ipfs might be a solution.

trickstra 6y ago
There is also git-ssb
nybble41 6y ago
It appears there is already a recent copy of the Git repository hosted on IPFS: http://gateway.ipfs.io/ipfs/QmNaDfmdDdahE2c4jxSuptSxMefQEZPwuhUFt1Y9WWfB1J/youtube-dl.git http://gateway.ipfs.io/ipfs/QmNaDfmdDdahE2c4jxSuptSxMefQEZPw... The most recent commit is from October 23.

justinclift 6y ago

> outside of the reach of DMCA regualation. What's the latency to the Moon again? :)

anticensor 6y ago
2.5s is the minimum roundtrip. Add server and satellite hops and you get something closer to 3s minimum. Every time.
- justinclift 6y ago
  Thanks. Sounds like it'd be workable as a backup target then, but would probably suck being the primary place to grab source code. That being said, maybe it would be ok as a primary location if there are more localised caches (eg lower response times) commonly available.
  - ColanR 6y ago
    It's git - what do you need low-latency for? Download directories, trees, as the initial requests, then send a second request for the source code you want to download. Then the bottleneck is download speed instead of latency.
    - justinclift 6y ago
      For just git, sure. For a web application to present it (eg Gitea, GitLab, etc), then the lower latency would be helpful. ;)
      - ColanR 6y ago
        eh, web applications are overrated. :)
- m4rtink 6y ago
  Not a problem for Git or even PR workflow then.

achinese 6y ago

Nah, that won't work. China is a member of WTO and follows the TRIPS agreement. Therefore, I guess the RIAA will just go court in China, and they can still take down any repository which they'd like to. Lots of companies from the western country have won intellectual lawsuits in China. Sites like sci-hub works in a way tricky manner. You can't expect an ordinary company which is in another country to do so, because they are still inside the framework of the international capitalism.