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What I've seen over the last ~25 years is that general purpose computing is a double-edged sword for normal people. The most straightforward reasons for most o

What I've seen over the last ~25 years is that general purpose computing is a double-edged sword for normal people. The most straightforward reasons for most of the walled gardens are malware, adware, spyware, and ransomware. Android probably comes the closest to a free market for software that gives normal users some measure of control over their own devices. It requires TPM and secure boot so that there's a viable option for normal people who accidentally install a bad APK. Normal people can't flash EEPROMS by hand to remove rootkits. I'd love if general computing was pushed as one of the most important things for people to know. I still think that the level of expertise necessary to maintain a malware-free computing experience is beyond the reach of most people. Computer and network security are hard.

fsflover 6y ago
F-Droid works fine without malware even for non-technical people (if they managed to instal it).
the_af 6y ago
> The most straightforward reasons for most of the walled gardens are malware, adware, spyware, and ransomware. These threats are exaggerated and are not in my opinion why the industry likes locked down things so much. I think the real reason is DRM and control over the platform; malware gets used as the stick in this argument, and is mostly a red herring. There used to be a time tech-minded people widely considered this kind of control evil. I wonder when the cultural switch happened that people in a site called hackernews started considering it acceptable.
- Zak 6y ago
  It seems to me attitudes started shifting around the time the iPhone was introduced. I suspect it was a combination of many people perceiving Apple as benevolent, and the iPhone being seen as a toy or accessory rather than what would be a primary device for the average person a decade later. I recall a conversation in which someone responded to some criticism I had with "they built a Playstation for adults, what's the problem with that?". Of course, that kind of power corrupts regardless of its wielder's benevolence, with there being recent examples of Apple imposing, or being forced to impose censorship on services provided through third-party apps (e.g. Telegram being forced to censor doxxing of Belarusian police), and smartphones play a much more important role in society than game consoles do.
- benlivengood 6y ago
  > These threats are exaggerated and are not in my opinion why the industry likes locked down things so much. With respect, the threats are real. I spend plenty of time removing unwanted software from my relatives' PCs. Antivirus/antimalware software is not much better; it slows the systems down significantly and doesn't protect against adware.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    Just try free software operating system and free software repositories. Never had any problem with malware on GNU/Linux, which I installed for my relatives.
    - benlivengood 6y ago
      That works well for several of them but kids like games and some don't work on Linux. Neither does AutoCAD, which was required for school courses.
  - the_af 6y ago
    To be clear, I didn't mean they aren't real, just that they are exaggerated and not the real reason many industry actors push for walled gardens and locked down devices. Let me ask you this: of the many times your relatives had spyware, viruses or malware... do you remember a time when they caused real damage? I don't mean slowing down the computer or making it malfunction, but actually stealing something irreplaceable, identity theft or causing a real money loss? In other words, when were these instances more than annoyances?

fsflover 6y ago

F-Droid works fine without malware even for non-technical people (if they managed to instal it).

the_af 6y ago

> The most straightforward reasons for most of the walled gardens are malware, adware, spyware, and ransomware. These threats are exaggerated and are not in my opinion why the industry likes locked down things so much. I think the real reason is DRM and control over the platform; malware gets used as the stick in this argument, and is mostly a red herring. There used to be a time tech-minded people widely considered this kind of control evil. I wonder when the cultural switch happened that people in a site called hackernews started considering it acceptable.

Zak 6y ago
It seems to me attitudes started shifting around the time the iPhone was introduced. I suspect it was a combination of many people perceiving Apple as benevolent, and the iPhone being seen as a toy or accessory rather than what would be a primary device for the average person a decade later. I recall a conversation in which someone responded to some criticism I had with "they built a Playstation for adults, what's the problem with that?". Of course, that kind of power corrupts regardless of its wielder's benevolence, with there being recent examples of Apple imposing, or being forced to impose censorship on services provided through third-party apps (e.g. Telegram being forced to censor doxxing of Belarusian police), and smartphones play a much more important role in society than game consoles do.
benlivengood 6y ago
> These threats are exaggerated and are not in my opinion why the industry likes locked down things so much. With respect, the threats are real. I spend plenty of time removing unwanted software from my relatives' PCs. Antivirus/antimalware software is not much better; it slows the systems down significantly and doesn't protect against adware.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Just try free software operating system and free software repositories. Never had any problem with malware on GNU/Linux, which I installed for my relatives.
  - benlivengood 6y ago
    That works well for several of them but kids like games and some don't work on Linux. Neither does AutoCAD, which was required for school courses.
- the_af 6y ago
  To be clear, I didn't mean they aren't real, just that they are exaggerated and not the real reason many industry actors push for walled gardens and locked down devices. Let me ask you this: of the many times your relatives had spyware, viruses or malware... do you remember a time when they caused real damage? I don't mean slowing down the computer or making it malfunction, but actually stealing something irreplaceable, identity theft or causing a real money loss? In other words, when were these instances more than annoyances?