5 ms·

The one problem I have with solarpunk is that much of the fiction is simply not that good. I think most emblematic of that is maybe Cory Doctorow's book "Walkaw

The one problem I have with solarpunk is that much of the fiction is simply not that good. I think most emblematic of that is maybe Cory Doctorow's book "Walkaway". I have lately come to accept that the book had a huge influence on me; it just keeps coming up in conversation. Well... I bring it up, because it struck a chord, and because it fits well with the conversations I have. But the writing is so.... aaaargh, so shoddy at times. And half of the book is just a brain dump of ideas and projections of current trends in the future, but it's just not presented as a good plot line. It's very clear that the intention is to wrap some (powerful) ideas into a plot to make it digestible, but it's just not that well executed. But as I said, I made my peace with this love-hate relationship I have with the book. I just hope there will be more, better solarpunk art. Something I can actually recommend to friends without it feeling like homework.

evgen 6y ago
Doctorow is a pundit and pseudo-futurist who thinks he can write (or at least has convinced some small subset of this particular delusion.) In small doses like short stories or selected snippets from his novels there is a bit of fun, but too much and it becomes apparent that he is better at the idea than the literary execution.
- black_puppydog 6y ago
  I tend to agree, except with the tone of your message, or the tone as it arrived at my end at least. I think there is a lot of value in the ideas there, we desperately need them, and they are very clearly formulated. Just a bit^Wlot too clearly. He should have chosen a different format, although I can't really think of a good one either. World building needs plot to give it any credibility, and tee point was to give these ideas exactly that. So I don't want to trash talk Doctorowh in general here.
  - evgen 6y ago
    Don't want to trash talk Doctorow, but I just think he missed his calling at the New Yorker or somewhere similar writing near-future short stories that were subtle critique of current issues. If we criticize Neal Stephenson for building great worlds and telling an interesting story but not being able to consistently stick the landing then I think Doctorow builds the world but can never really get a good story going. They are all better writers than I, but overall Doctorow to me seems a bit over-hyped for someone who under-delivers on the possibilities of his world-building.
    - forgotmypw17 6y ago
      If you can do better, where is your writing? Doctorow has added more to my life than the whole of New Yorker, and I'm grateful.
      - ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
        What a strange comment. What does it matter if he is a writer or not? Critique is not magically less valid because of it People can criticize without providing a solution.
      - bigbubba 6y ago
        You don't need to be a chef to give your opinion on food.
        CodeGlitch 6y ago
        That is true but a chef is classed as a (usually) expert so knows what they're talking about. Put another way, I value the opinion of a chef about food than everyone else.
        bigbubba 6y ago
        To the point though, if somebody told you that Bills Burger Bin had great burgers and you responded with "How would you know? Where are all the burgers you've made?", that would make you a jackass.
- karaterobot 6y ago
  I think he's a much better essayist (and polemicist) than he is a fiction writer. I'm skeptical about his positions a lot of the time, but I enjoy reading him when he's making cases about technology and free speech. The problem comes when he tries to rewrite those same essays in narrative form, which does not play to his strengths.
  - black_puppydog 6y ago
    This. I think it's good to have someone who can communicate this clearly and mostly understands the tech they're writing about (and actually bothers writing about it regularly)
arthurjj 6y ago
This is a problem I've noticed especially with some of the collections of Solarpunk short stories. I really wanted to like them and couldn't Walkaway was way better than most of it and as you said the writing is, pretty awkward at times. But some of the ideas (reclaiming and rebuilding bad areas, sharing how to do brain uploads) were evocative enough to stick with me. That being said DM me if you ever run a bookclub on it Also avoid Radicalized it's the worst part of Walkaway
- wj 6y ago
  Just started Walkaway a few days ago. Agreed, would love to hear about a bookclub if someone were to do it.
totemandtoken 6y ago
Another solarpunk influence is Ursula Le Guin. The issue is that Le Guin is a one-of-a-kind, amazingly good writer and most solarpunk writers...aren't that.
- petre 6y ago
  I tried to read the Left Hand of Darkness but just gave up. Although her descriptive style is warm and enjoyable I found the story unplausible, like a fairytale for adults.
tomc1985 6y ago
Reading his synopsis, all I think can think is "ugh. How boring." And I don't agree with their hijacking of the word punk. I'm no punk but from what I've seen they aren't short on empathy.
input_sh 6y ago
> The one problem I have with solarpunk is that much of the fiction is simply not that good. I agree. I was intrigued by the genre and picked up what happens to be the only books mentioned in the article by name: The Dispossessed and Sunvault. They're both fairly boring. Slow paced, lack of nail-biting moments, some stories from Sunvault completely went over my head (barely understood anything from them)... I have respect for Doctorow from an advocacy perspective, but I'm not a fan of his fiction at all.
- vector_spaces 6y ago
  Le Guin is all about the slow burn. I recommend giving her another chance -- her short stories IMO are better for getting your feet wet than her novels particularly the anthology "The Wind's Twelve Corners"[1] which introduces many of her universes, including the Hainish Cycle (the universe of The Dispossessed) and Earthsea. The first story in TWTC in particular, Semley's Necklace, is wonderful -- I remember being frustrated 3/4 of the way through it because it felt very "high fantasy" which is not generally my preference, only to be dealt a bucket of ice water in the face by the end. Much of her work is that way. Her parents were anthropologists and she herself was politically engaged, so much of her work deals with themes of culture, the relationship between culture and technology, cultural supremacy, gender, and power in general. Much of her work inverts the racial and gender order of traditional scifi. "The Rule of Names" is another short story in that anthology that I loved -- this one was less political in nature, and introduces her Earthsea universe. It's fairly easy to find a PDF copy of this one on the internet. As far as her novels go, "A Wizard of Earthsea" might be the best starter novel if you're interested in giving her novels another shot. IMO this quote from it captures the essence of her writing (and the experience of reading it) pretty well: “You want to work spells,' Ogion said presently, striding along. 'You've drawn too much water from that well. Wait. Manhood is patience. Mastery is nine times patience. What is that herb by the path?' 'Strawflower.' 'And that?' 'I don't know.' 'Fourfoil, they call it.' Ogion had halted, the coppershod foot of his staff near the little weed, so Ged looked closely at the plant, and plucked a dry seedpod from it, and finally asked, since Ogion said nothing more, 'What is its use, Master?' 'None I know of.' Ged kept the seedpod a while as they went on, then tossed it away. 'When you know the fourfoil in all its seasons root and leaf and flower, by sight and scent and seed, then you may learn its true name, knowing its being: which is more than its use. What, after all, is the use of you? or of myself? Is Gont Mountain useful, or the Open Sea?' Ogion went on a half mile or so, and said at last, 'To hear, one must be silent.” [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wind%27s_Twelve_Quarters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wind%27s_Twelve_Quarters

evgen 6y ago

Doctorow is a pundit and pseudo-futurist who thinks he can write (or at least has convinced some small subset of this particular delusion.) In small doses like short stories or selected snippets from his novels there is a bit of fun, but too much and it becomes apparent that he is better at the idea than the literary execution.

black_puppydog 6y ago
I tend to agree, except with the tone of your message, or the tone as it arrived at my end at least. I think there is a lot of value in the ideas there, we desperately need them, and they are very clearly formulated. Just a bit^Wlot too clearly. He should have chosen a different format, although I can't really think of a good one either. World building needs plot to give it any credibility, and tee point was to give these ideas exactly that. So I don't want to trash talk Doctorowh in general here.
- evgen 6y ago
  Don't want to trash talk Doctorow, but I just think he missed his calling at the New Yorker or somewhere similar writing near-future short stories that were subtle critique of current issues. If we criticize Neal Stephenson for building great worlds and telling an interesting story but not being able to consistently stick the landing then I think Doctorow builds the world but can never really get a good story going. They are all better writers than I, but overall Doctorow to me seems a bit over-hyped for someone who under-delivers on the possibilities of his world-building.
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    If you can do better, where is your writing? Doctorow has added more to my life than the whole of New Yorker, and I'm grateful.
    - ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
      What a strange comment. What does it matter if he is a writer or not? Critique is not magically less valid because of it People can criticize without providing a solution.
    - bigbubba 6y ago
      You don't need to be a chef to give your opinion on food.
      - CodeGlitch 6y ago
        That is true but a chef is classed as a (usually) expert so knows what they're talking about. Put another way, I value the opinion of a chef about food than everyone else.
        bigbubba 6y ago
        To the point though, if somebody told you that Bills Burger Bin had great burgers and you responded with "How would you know? Where are all the burgers you've made?", that would make you a jackass.
karaterobot 6y ago
I think he's a much better essayist (and polemicist) than he is a fiction writer. I'm skeptical about his positions a lot of the time, but I enjoy reading him when he's making cases about technology and free speech. The problem comes when he tries to rewrite those same essays in narrative form, which does not play to his strengths.
- black_puppydog 6y ago
  This. I think it's good to have someone who can communicate this clearly and mostly understands the tech they're writing about (and actually bothers writing about it regularly)

arthurjj 6y ago

This is a problem I've noticed especially with some of the collections of Solarpunk short stories. I really wanted to like them and couldn't Walkaway was way better than most of it and as you said the writing is, pretty awkward at times. But some of the ideas (reclaiming and rebuilding bad areas, sharing how to do brain uploads) were evocative enough to stick with me. That being said DM me if you ever run a bookclub on it Also avoid Radicalized it's the worst part of Walkaway

wj 6y ago
Just started Walkaway a few days ago. Agreed, would love to hear about a bookclub if someone were to do it.

totemandtoken 6y ago

Another solarpunk influence is Ursula Le Guin. The issue is that Le Guin is a one-of-a-kind, amazingly good writer and most solarpunk writers...aren't that.

petre 6y ago
I tried to read the Left Hand of Darkness but just gave up. Although her descriptive style is warm and enjoyable I found the story unplausible, like a fairytale for adults.

tomc1985 6y ago

Reading his synopsis, all I think can think is "ugh. How boring." And I don't agree with their hijacking of the word punk. I'm no punk but from what I've seen they aren't short on empathy.

input_sh 6y ago

> The one problem I have with solarpunk is that much of the fiction is simply not that good. I agree. I was intrigued by the genre and picked up what happens to be the only books mentioned in the article by name: The Dispossessed and Sunvault. They're both fairly boring. Slow paced, lack of nail-biting moments, some stories from Sunvault completely went over my head (barely understood anything from them)... I have respect for Doctorow from an advocacy perspective, but I'm not a fan of his fiction at all.

vector_spaces 6y ago
Le Guin is all about the slow burn. I recommend giving her another chance -- her short stories IMO are better for getting your feet wet than her novels particularly the anthology "The Wind's Twelve Corners"[1] which introduces many of her universes, including the Hainish Cycle (the universe of The Dispossessed) and Earthsea. The first story in TWTC in particular, Semley's Necklace, is wonderful -- I remember being frustrated 3/4 of the way through it because it felt very "high fantasy" which is not generally my preference, only to be dealt a bucket of ice water in the face by the end. Much of her work is that way. Her parents were anthropologists and she herself was politically engaged, so much of her work deals with themes of culture, the relationship between culture and technology, cultural supremacy, gender, and power in general. Much of her work inverts the racial and gender order of traditional scifi. "The Rule of Names" is another short story in that anthology that I loved -- this one was less political in nature, and introduces her Earthsea universe. It's fairly easy to find a PDF copy of this one on the internet. As far as her novels go, "A Wizard of Earthsea" might be the best starter novel if you're interested in giving her novels another shot. IMO this quote from it captures the essence of her writing (and the experience of reading it) pretty well: “You want to work spells,' Ogion said presently, striding along. 'You've drawn too much water from that well. Wait. Manhood is patience. Mastery is nine times patience. What is that herb by the path?' 'Strawflower.' 'And that?' 'I don't know.' 'Fourfoil, they call it.' Ogion had halted, the coppershod foot of his staff near the little weed, so Ged looked closely at the plant, and plucked a dry seedpod from it, and finally asked, since Ogion said nothing more, 'What is its use, Master?' 'None I know of.' Ged kept the seedpod a while as they went on, then tossed it away. 'When you know the fourfoil in all its seasons root and leaf and flower, by sight and scent and seed, then you may learn its true name, knowing its being: which is more than its use. What, after all, is the use of you? or of myself? Is Gont Mountain useful, or the Open Sea?' Ogion went on a half mile or so, and said at last, 'To hear, one must be silent.” [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wind%27s_Twelve_Quarters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wind%27s_Twelve_Quarters