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At 38, am I too old for a startup?
I've had an idea that's been eating me up for 18 months. What's your position on 'older' founders and startups?
- brk 18y agoIn all honesty, 38 is probably more "ideal" than "too old". Been done plenty of times. Now get to work!
- noodle 18y agoas long as you feel you have the time/flexibility/energy/whatever to make it happen, you're not too old. the standard difference is that younger people tend to have more flexibility in failure -- if they don't succeed they can still get a regular job and retire and live happily ever after. they don't have a family, a house, sometimes don't have a car, are comparatively more healthy, etc. its easier to live off of nothing, bootstrap themselves, and fail gracefully. a prototypical older person has more responsibilities, has bills to pay, has a family to support, etc.. there's more of a need of a steady income stream. if you feel like you're in a situation to be able to follow your idea and still uphold your responsibilities, then go for it.
- bh 18y agoThanks for the enncouragement. I wonder what YC's position would be?
- pg 18y agoWe've funded people older than that. In some types of startups it's the ideal age. E.g. if you want to build a factory or make enterprise software, or do something else that requires lots of capital and/or industry experience.
- j2d2 18y agoSome domains carry a crowd that will eat the naive alive. I cannot imagine someone starting a financial tech company being younger than their 30's.
- SwellJoe 18y agoWhile I agree that experience can be a benefit in many industries (and I'm 33, have been working around my current industry for about 10 years, and I think that's been a big benefit to my current startup), I also think naivety can be a far more powerful defense than your comment would indicate. Not knowing about the old boy networks and the "way things are done" can be a benefit to a small and nimble startup. The fact is that economics and the requirement to get things done will occasionally be able to trump "the way we've always done it", and by the time you've signed on two or three clients that way, you can find your way into that network and learn how things are done. And, in the meantime, you've built products that offer better value (because you had to, and your competitors didn't) and a business that is run very lean (because you had to, and your competitors didn't).
- comatose_kid 18y agoI wonder if older founders could hack that problem by starting up in an area outside their expertise.
- j2d2 18y agoA combination of older founders from this field mixed with idealistic kids outside the field could probably do very well.
- SwellJoe 18y agoVery likely. I've also noticed that whenever you put a hacker into just about any non-technical field, they can very quickly spot dozens of areas of inefficiency that could be resolved with a little technology. Often, the problems aren't even hard. Barcodes added to all forms being filed by customers, or added to "things" in the warehouse, or organized in a database rather than on the shelf (like Zappos does), etc. And a lot of non-technical industries make a lot of money...saving a few dozen companies a few dozen million each year via automation is a recipe for a beautiful lifestyle business. I did IT work for a guy in Austin that served court papers...a totally low-tech industry. Individual guys (and a few rugged gals) drive out to peoples houses and personally deliver divorce court summons, etc. The guy I worked for began automating his company in the late 80's or early 90's, several years before anyone else, and by the time I stopped working for him, I believe he had the largest process service company in Texas (and, probably the nation, since Texas is mighty big), though all are privately held, so it's hard to say for sure who was "biggest", but he covered nearly the whole state and almost everyone else only covered one or two cities, and had several million in revenue from ~30 or so employees and ~100 independent field agents. Anyway, there was tons of low-hanging fruit in this industry because it had never been automated before. And because he had lots of process servers on his payroll and many lawyers/legislators that he worked with on a regular basis, he got to shape policy with regards to how it all worked. The state opened up electronic filings with many of its legal papers around 2005, which gave him an even bigger leg up on the competition, because all of his data was already going into a database. I'm just saying that technical people might be well-served by looking at currently non-technical industries for their golden goose. There are plenty of industries still to be saved from tedium by making computers do more of the work.
- sanj 18y agoOr if you want to build a product instead of a feature.
- pg 18y agoCalling what a startup has made a "feature" is just an empty insult. Google was just a feature, until it wasn't.
- cmos 18y agoKids are often inefficient and waste a lot of time just figuring stuff out and making mistakes. Use your experience to your benefit and just make sure your idea is something that you can do in the finite amount of time you might have available to yourself. I'm 34 and starting a new company while in the process of leaving my previous one in capable hands. Starting a company is saying to the world you are ready for a major change in your life. This is a big step, one that shouldn't be taken lightly, especially with a mortgage. But if your losing sleep over this idea at night, then it's one that might be necessary. Even if it's a complete failure, you would have succeeded in changing your life. Cheers to that!
- deleted 18y ago[deleted]
- ajbatac 18y agoAge doesn't matter as long as you have a product, solves a problem, it's growing and profitable.
- tptacek 18y agoNo.
- bootload 18y ago"... At 38, am I too old for a startup? No ..." So is there any logic behind this or just a quick response?
- mpc 18y ago38 is not old
- huhtenberg 18y agoNot if it's in hex :)
- byteCoder 18y agoIf you think you're too old, then you probably are. Age is a state of mind. Actually, at 41 myself (and 3 months into my own startup), I find that as the kids get older (7 and 11), I'm getting more time again to pursue my passions.
- dcminter 18y agoSpeaking as a 36-year old in the throes of testing his app I bloody hope not! If you're sufficiently clear of responsibilities that you can do this, well, you'll always regret it if you don't.
- michaelneale 18y agoI guess the reasons PG and co recommend youung-uns are mainly: 1) Energy (physical, I guess) 2) No serious financial obligations 3) No family obligations. I think #2 is probably the biggest. However, if you are older and have no debt/mortgage, plenty of everything, they why not. #3 you can't do anything about really, but as long as you don't mess with #2, the #3's in your house won't be too upset. Also having kids teaches you to sleep efficiently and economically (you sleep when you can). I find it fascinating to watch startups, I think its an awesome thing to do.
- MaysonL 18y agoHell, I'm 62, and I just started a project which may well turn into a startup in the foreseeable future. Go for it!
- MaysonL 18y agoWTF? Why did this get upmodded?
- fallentimes 18y agobecause it answers the question perfectly.
- MaysonL 18y agoLMAOOL at the modding for parent and grandparent, both by me!
- falsestprophet 18y agoOkay, you may be too old.
- wheels 18y agoOr from the replies, perpetually too young.
- fleaflicker 18y agoYou might be. ...I don't think many people have the physical stamina much past that age. I used to work till 2:00 or 3:00 AM every night, seven days a week. I don't know if I could do that now. -How to Start a Startup
- diego 18y agoStamina comes naturally when you are in your teens and 20s. Assuming you are in good general health, in your 30s and later it's a matter of staying in shape and eating well. Carlos Lopes of Portugal was 37 when he won the Olympic Marathon ('84, Los Angeles). If that's not stamina, I don't know what is.
- fiaz 18y agoIf you have to ask, then you are too old... If you feel too old, then hang out with younger people and ask them as many questions as you can. Really put yourself in a learning position where the twenty somethings are your teachers.
- ucdaz 18y agoWhy should it even matter? Ask yourself these questions: 1. Do you have passion behind your idea? 2. Can you execute your idea to fruition? 3. If not now, when? When your 50? 70? Don't live life asking yourself "What if?" Give it a try before you dig yourself into a deep hole.
- weegee 18y agoI'm 39 and I'm not old!
- michael_nielsen 18y agoThis paper gives data showing that 38 is not too old: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=180204 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=180204 (That submission got no votes at all, which greatly surprised me, given how often people discuss this here.)
- jcl 18y agoPart of the problem may be that the article is a pdf, and you have to create an account to read it.
- michael_nielsen 18y agoI didn't need an account to read it. A direct link is here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID1127877_code861608.pdf?abstractid=1127248&mirid=1 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID1127877_code...
- jcl 18y agoOops... my cookies were messed up; I managed to download the article. I note, though, that the link you provided isn't a direct link. They must be checking referrer to discourage direct links... Annoying!
- frazerb 18y agoHow ironic to read this question this evening. I'm 38. Right now I am finalising the documentation pack (16 documents in all!) to sell my second company. It's two-and-a-half years old. We sign the documents in 12 hours time. The company took no VC, but just a small amount of trade money. We're selling out to our largest customer because they made us an offer we couldn't refuse. At 38 you are most certainly NOT too old to startup. At 38 your personal circumstances may mean that you cannot take the same level of risk that you could at 28 or 21. But if you are happy, healthy, and have a means of keeping a roof over your head and your dependents' head, then go for it. The very very worst that could happen is that you could find yourself looking for a job in a few months time. But you'll be looking for that job with a bunch more experience, and credibility, than you would have without having tried to start something. Best wishes to you. Enjoy it. And if your luck works out, you'll make a fortune. If your luck doesn't work out, you'll hold with you a great experience that you'll cherish forever.
- chaostheory 18y agoSomeone correct me, but I think King Gillette started in his forties, inventing something people wanted: the safety razor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Camp_Gillette http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Camp_Gillette
- Prrometheus 18y agoYou're probably too old to quit your job, live in a one bedroom apartment with two other dudes, and eat Ramen for six months. But you're probably not too old to start something as a side project with your friends and see if it goes somewhere.
- acegopher 18y agoNo. I'm 38 and a year in as CTO of a startup while moonlighting on another "hobby" business I've had for a couple of years. Oh, and I have two kids, a wife, and a yard. I actually know my kids and they know who I am :-). But, I don't watch TV, the only video games I play are with my kids, and I'm having the time of my life. You can do it. It's just a matter of desire and priorities. Me, I have more fun getting code to run than watching TV or playing an RPG. And that's really the only "sacrifice" I've made, and I think it's a rather good one, personally.
- rami 18y agoYes.
- isakovic 18y agoJeff Bezos started Amazon.com when he was 40.
- coliveira 18y agoIn fact, he was 30.
- isakovic 18y agoTouché.
- rgrieselhuber 18y agoThis exchange made me laugh.
- augustus 18y agoYou probably want to talk about Henry Ford who in fact started when he was 40. Ray Kroc (McDonalds) was in his 50's when he got the McDonalds franchise going.
- eventhough 18y agoDo you have kids? Family? Mortgage? Are you going to help your kids pay for college? What about parents? Do you have to help them out at all? Will you be able to purchase affordable health insurance?
- geebee 18y agoThese are the right questions. People often pose the question as a matter of age, which is almost certainly not the determining factor. I will concede that there may be some loss of endurance with age that makes the startup thing harder. I suspect that the OP just wants a bit of reassurance that he's not too old for this. Of course he's not. 38 isn't too old at all. I'm 36, and I wouldn't try to start a startup right now. But that's mainly because I have, as you said, a pregnant wife, a three year old, and a mortgage. However, I know a few people who aren't even deterred by those things and do work for startups. I even know a founder in that situation. He is excruciatingly busy, though, and I know that it does take a toll on his personal life. By the way, I think that working for startups and founding a startup are often completely different things. In the tech heavy bay area, I don't think that a talented programmer assumes all that much risk by joining a well funded startup, because if things head south they can often get a well paid new job within a month or two. Furthermore, "stable" jobs often aren't as stable as they seem - especially if they allow you to let your skills get rusty. So personally, I think that working for a small startup that pays decently and gives you some nice equity isn't all that bad an idea. However, you won't (and probably shouldn't) get anywhere near the kind of equity that the folks who ate ramen and crammed into a 2br apartment for 18 months get. Instead, think of it as an exciting job with a nice potential upside (I know a few parents who scored that nice upside).
- lisper 18y agoI'm 44 and I just started on my fourth.
- huhtenberg 18y agoHow did the first three go if you don't mind me asking ?
- lisper 18y agoSorry for not responding sooner. Hacker News needs an active message flag like Reddit has. The first one (flownet.com) failed. Never made a dime. Never found an investor. But we had working (hardware) prototypes. The second one (indiebuyer.net) made some revenue but ultimately ran out of money and folded. The third one was acquired by Richard Branson and is now Virgin Charter. (That wasn't an exit, so I still haven't made any money from it. But it's looking promising. At least it's still in business, and doing well last I heard.) The fourth one is looking pretty promising as well. (Actually there's a fifth one too, which is also looking pretty good.) So I've been at it off and on for fifteen years (we started FlowNet in '93) and I still haven't made a dime off a startup of my own. But I think I'm getting better at it :-)
- dboyd 18y agoAt 39 I work in a startup. I would say that mid-thirties is probably the ideal age to get involved with a startup. Both the founders for which I work are also 'mid thirties'. At that age you probably have enough experience to be at a great advantage over people in their 20s. Good luck!
- brlewis 18y agoNo, 38 is not too young. Sure, you'll get better as you get older, but there's no reason not to start now. If it's a software startup, you'll want a good codebase in place now before your kids get old enough to hack on it. P.S. You put "am I too old" in the title. You might be able to get one of the moderators to fix that typo.
- philswenson 18y agoif you are asking the question, then you probably are not in a good position. but it has nothing to do with being 38
- lst 18y agoIf you ask (really) seriously, then yes. But if you only need some drive: the only part of us which really goes down every year is our body; all other things are able to increase, if you continue to train them.
- FredSAN 18y agoIt's not your age that counts, but your level of PASSION (and the target market), as some wise man once said, "There's no OFF switch on a successful entrepreneur". Col. Sanders was in his seventies when he started KFC. But ... it really depends on your level of debt and risk aversion. And of course, if you have a significant other then he/she must share your passion otherwise you'll either drop out or your significant other with be very EX! Starting a business will not get you out of debt quickly (if ever) but further into debt until you start making more than you spend.
- aggieben 18y agoThe average age of a startup founder in the U.S. is 35.
- t0pj 18y agoFYI. I'm meeting up with the Python folks at the Denny's in Addison off of Belt Line tonight @ 7. I'd still like to get together and talk for a spell. I think the last time we exchanged e-mails was back in April. I'll shoot ya another e-mail.
- aggieben 18y agoSorry - couldn't make it tonight. Too short a notice for a guy with a family (it takes a couple days to coax the wife into letting me go)
- t0pj 18y agoI'm currently exploring a "What If" idea. I'm designing my first web site. I can only do it during nights and weekends. I'm happy. I'm 35. I will never quit.
- senthil_rajasek 18y ago"I will never quit." Amen to that!
- omfut 18y agoI don’t think age is a factor for starting a company. I think age is a state of mind. . Anyway, if you have the passion for the idea, nothing can stop you from achieving what u want. It is this passion that has been driving some of the great folks in the industry
- gojomo 18y agoI turn 38 in two days, and I also fear 38 may be too old. So I'm starting a company today. Or maybe I'll do it tomorrow. But definitely before I'm all spent at age 38.
- sutro 18y agoHow many shares of said company will several birthday beverages of your choice buy me, payable in full this Saturday night?
- Kilimanjaro 18y agoThe good thing about the internet is the older you get the better. I bet you when I am 105 I'll be running another startup, while doctors, lawyers or teachers won't even be able to walk to their workplaces. All I will need is an input device attached to my weelchair. No kidding folks.
- radley 18y agoI"m a YC start-up founder @ 39. I thought I was going to be the oldest, but there was another in the same cycle that had me beat by four months. It's not a matter of age, it's just a matter of managing commitments.
- nir 18y agoCool. I always thought YC aims for kids in early 20s - with the $5k/mo model etc.. Are your co-founders also in their 30s?
- radley 18y agoMy partner is 25 & matches the more common YC image (it's an unusual match-up, but works really well). The other 39 y/o from my cycle was part of a team of 30-somethings.
- matthewsimon 18y agoYou're definitely not too old -- I'm 36, and my co-founder is in his forties. Possible drawbacks to older founders include: - may not be able to work for free (or nearly so) for as long a time, because they have families to support (or have simply grown accustomed to a higher standard of living than ramen and crashing on someone's couch). - may not be able to work for as many hours per week, again because of families, accustomed comfort, etc. On the positive side, older founders are: - more likely to have the business and professional relationships that will facilitate customer sales and/or investor deals. - may be able to work more efficiently and effectively, because of the things they have learned (technology, management, specific domains, business, etc). There might be some business plans that can best be executed by college-age folks, but there are others that are best executed by someone older -- figure out how to make your idea work for you, and go for it!
- ojbyrne 18y ago44 when I co-founded digg. Go for it.
- joseakle 18y agoIm 25, my cofounder 42
- rgrieselhuber 18y agoYou're already 18 months older than you would have been had you gone for it when you first had the idea.
- icey 18y agoYou're only too old if you believe people that tell you you're too old.
- mannylee1 18y agoNo way. As long as you have passion for what you are doing that is all that you need.
- rnugent 18y agoyes
- dex 18y agoAre you mad? Since when does age preclude anything. Age=experience, which is something a lot of investors are looking for. If you have a startup "itch" then scratch it. I have friends who have been in the same situation and have not acted. They played safe, but there is always this nagging in their mind - what if I had done it? That does not go away.
- bh 18y agoThat's what I'm worried about. I've had three other attempts over the last 20 years, the first when I was 17/18. None of them really took off. I've been sort of hoping this idea would go away (a sort of 'oh no, not again' feeling), but it won't! Maybe this is the big one?
- thorn 18y agoi think the age doesn't matter at all. whats matter thats is your resources and health to handle all the stuff.
- james123abc 18y agoTwo Words: Colonel Sanders
- signa11 18y agoread samuel-ullman's "youth" http://www.prmvr.otsu.shiga.jp/library/master/SamuelUllman/Youth.html http://www.prmvr.otsu.shiga.jp/library/master/SamuelUllman/Y... dunno if lot of folks here have already read it.
- bh 18y agoNice. :)