4 ms·

The biggest misunderstanding for the media and politicians in this pandemic is that individual citizens are making their own response decisions rather than sole

by tims33 6y ago

The biggest misunderstanding for the media and politicians in this pandemic is that individual citizens are making their own response decisions rather than solely relying on government policy. So, Sweden was more lax from government policy perspective, but that doesn't mean Swedes were completely unafraid and behaving recklessly. They're not out recreating their own version of the Sturgis rally daily.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mrfusion 6y ago
It’s a nice CNN talking point but any actual evidence Swedes are less “reckless”?
hbosch 6y ago
I have a few friends at Spotify working in Stockholm. Anecdotally, it seems that in general Swedes have never really shared the global concern for COVID. No masks, no real social distancing, still working in the office all summer, plenty of holiday fun with friends, and yet somewhat low hospitalizations anyway. Seeing how life has been there since the lockdown here in the USA I have been admittedly quite jealous.
- hising 6y ago
  Not true. People are working from home when they can and are recommended to do so at least until 2021. People do practice social distancing. As in all countries some are better and some are worse at following recommendations. When it comes to analyze why death rates are lower, I guess one thing to consider is that we have been social distancing, working from home and making fewer visits to doctors and had cancelled operations. If Sweden would have managed covid the way some people think we have managed covid (no measures) the death rate would probably been on an ATH for September.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    People may be working from home but they are shopping in retail with no masks, going out to eat in restaurants, taking public transportation with no masks, etc. They never closed schools. They've been fully open with no mask policies whatsoever. They're a free country and they're getting the same or better results than many draconian police states, like UK and Belgium.
    - CuriousSkeptic 6y ago
      Stores ask people to stay outside, provide hand sanitizer at the entrance, remind people with signs and speakers to keep a distance. Restaurants have sparser seating arrangement to keep people apart. Hosting any event with 50 people or more is illegal. In some regions any private gatherings, like parties, are discouraged. Schools being kept open in the belief that it is actually a net benefit. Not being a significant contributor to the spread while parents are freed up to do important work. It’s been the goal all along to keep health care capacity above demands. Last I heard it is still believed that there is no scientific basis supporting masks as an effective measure, if beneficial at all. (It’s often mention with a reiteration that the primary measure for any person with symptoms is to stay at home)
      - chrisco255 6y ago
        > Restaurants have sparser seating arrangement to keep people apart. Here's people packed in like sardines on buses. No masks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fevjBA-qq7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fevjBA-qq7M Here's a normal mall shopping experience happening in Sweden, no masks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JbSbxIhZp8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JbSbxIhZp8 Everything about Sweden's strategy is just common sense voluntary recommendations (work from home if possible) and there are no penalties: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqjorS3oYlk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqjorS3oYlk > Schools being kept open in the belief that it is actually a net benefit. Not being a significant contributor to the spread while parents are freed up to do important work. It’s been the goal all along to keep health care capacity above demands. I agree with that and wish more people were thinking this way in the U.S. > Last I heard it is still believed that there is no scientific basis supporting masks as an effective measure, if beneficial at all. (It’s often mention with a reiteration that the primary measure for any person with symptoms is to stay at home) I believe this is correct. Masks only work in sterile environments and only if they are truly medical grade. I see people sniffling all over their masks and they are probably hosting tons of bacteria for the wearer. And people touch them and then touch other things.
- nchi3 6y ago
  Spotify employees started working from home in March though, just like most tech companies. Yes, some people still go to their offices, but they are small minority unless they have a job where they can't work from home.

by tims33 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mrfusion 6y ago

It’s a nice CNN talking point but any actual evidence Swedes are less “reckless”?

hbosch 6y ago

I have a few friends at Spotify working in Stockholm. Anecdotally, it seems that in general Swedes have never really shared the global concern for COVID. No masks, no real social distancing, still working in the office all summer, plenty of holiday fun with friends, and yet somewhat low hospitalizations anyway. Seeing how life has been there since the lockdown here in the USA I have been admittedly quite jealous.

hising 6y ago
Not true. People are working from home when they can and are recommended to do so at least until 2021. People do practice social distancing. As in all countries some are better and some are worse at following recommendations. When it comes to analyze why death rates are lower, I guess one thing to consider is that we have been social distancing, working from home and making fewer visits to doctors and had cancelled operations. If Sweden would have managed covid the way some people think we have managed covid (no measures) the death rate would probably been on an ATH for September.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  People may be working from home but they are shopping in retail with no masks, going out to eat in restaurants, taking public transportation with no masks, etc. They never closed schools. They've been fully open with no mask policies whatsoever. They're a free country and they're getting the same or better results than many draconian police states, like UK and Belgium.
  - CuriousSkeptic 6y ago
    Stores ask people to stay outside, provide hand sanitizer at the entrance, remind people with signs and speakers to keep a distance. Restaurants have sparser seating arrangement to keep people apart. Hosting any event with 50 people or more is illegal. In some regions any private gatherings, like parties, are discouraged. Schools being kept open in the belief that it is actually a net benefit. Not being a significant contributor to the spread while parents are freed up to do important work. It’s been the goal all along to keep health care capacity above demands. Last I heard it is still believed that there is no scientific basis supporting masks as an effective measure, if beneficial at all. (It’s often mention with a reiteration that the primary measure for any person with symptoms is to stay at home)
    - chrisco255 6y ago
      > Restaurants have sparser seating arrangement to keep people apart. Here's people packed in like sardines on buses. No masks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fevjBA-qq7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fevjBA-qq7M Here's a normal mall shopping experience happening in Sweden, no masks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JbSbxIhZp8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JbSbxIhZp8 Everything about Sweden's strategy is just common sense voluntary recommendations (work from home if possible) and there are no penalties: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqjorS3oYlk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqjorS3oYlk > Schools being kept open in the belief that it is actually a net benefit. Not being a significant contributor to the spread while parents are freed up to do important work. It’s been the goal all along to keep health care capacity above demands. I agree with that and wish more people were thinking this way in the U.S. > Last I heard it is still believed that there is no scientific basis supporting masks as an effective measure, if beneficial at all. (It’s often mention with a reiteration that the primary measure for any person with symptoms is to stay at home) I believe this is correct. Masks only work in sterile environments and only if they are truly medical grade. I see people sniffling all over their masks and they are probably hosting tons of bacteria for the wearer. And people touch them and then touch other things.
nchi3 6y ago
Spotify employees started working from home in March though, just like most tech companies. Yes, some people still go to their offices, but they are small minority unless they have a job where they can't work from home.