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I tried using Anki but found it far too boring to sustain my interest. Staring at fact flashcards for hours on end just felt like a waste of time. In my experi

I tried using Anki but found it far too boring to sustain my interest. Staring at fact flashcards for hours on end just felt like a waste of time. In my experience it was much more useful and engaging to learn by doing things (creating, writing, experimenting) that the facts were related to - then the most necessary facts would become deeply embedded in my memory, with others at just the right level of vagueness necessary to look up the details if needed.

agd 6y ago
I think to make the most of it you need to engage your imagination. Relating stories and context to the facts transforms it from ‘staring at flashcards for hours’ into more of a game and something to enjoy. And the great thing is, because of the spaced repetition, you don’t need to spend hours on it at a time. You can learn a lot in 5/10 mins a day.
- leppr 6y ago
  When I was starting Anki, I would spend time really focusing my thinking on the cards while reviewing them (reading sentences aloud multiple times until pronunciation is good, relating concepts to others, ...). I'm now convinced this is a waste of time and Anki is best used rushing through sessions as fast as possible (maximum 20min a day). This takes care of the small, boring but often essential rote memorization part, allowing you to use as much of your time and intellect for actual practice in the target domains. (This may not apply if the target domain is actually itself rote memorization, e.g. medical exams)
  - BeetleB 6y ago
    20 min a day is still a lot - unless it's mostly due to adding a lot of cards per day.
    - tomcatfish 6y ago
      For context in this thread, my maximum study in the last 2 months was 10.42 minutes, but my mode (and average as well, that point is an outlier) is close to 3 or 4
- wildpeaks 6y ago
  This is exactly why I still lament the loss of my favorite language learning app: "Cat Academy" (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/catacademy https://www.wired.co.uk/article/catacademy) It was using flashcards of cats with funny captions and it actually worked. Sadly my old phone eventually broken and the app can't be installed from the appstore anymore.
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    Have you tried fluent forever? their app uses a similar concept except you pick your own photos to help you remember. I finally found a use for many of the random photos of my dogs I’ve been saving in my phone for years!
snazz 6y ago
It really depends on what you're doing. Anki is the perfect tool for memorizing vocabulary in a new language, but it's not a replacement for practicing your writing or other creative endeavors. Each technique has its place.
Jtsummers 6y ago
Well, Anki isn’t meant to be used on its own. You are supposed to be doing those other things and Anki assists. Like if you were using it in a college chemistry course you’d have numerous facts in Anki, but still doing labs and other homework and things to exercise the knowledge. Anki itself is meant to help you remember better, but other things are needed to fully exercise that knowledge in appropriate contexts. I use it with Spanish, but without conversations with my wife and others or trying to read Spanish language content it would be a useless exercise on its own.
- ngokevin 6y ago
  Hey! I'm building an app for couples to learn languages from each other. I started building it because I've been learning Chinese with my wife, but mostly alone with Anki, so I wanted to make it more multiplayer. The app has an Anki-like backend, and augments the flashcards with guidance, feedback, and challenges with your wife. https://learncoupling.com https://learncoupling.com
wendyshu 6y ago
Indeed. I see the value of Anki for rote memorization, e.g. studying for a fact-based exam. But for more reasoning-based domains I'm skeptical.
- eska 6y ago
  But remembering facts is exactly what it's for..? And even reasoning-based domains have parts that require rote memorization. E.g. "what is the halting problem?" doesn't require any reasoning or understanding. One needs to know such definitions in order to even start the reasoning part.
- account42 6y ago
  I used Anki for maths with complex cards full of proof outlines and it worked just fine.
vslira 6y ago
> Staring at fact flashcards for hours on end just felt like a waste of time. I think I found your problem. Try this cycle: - Add however many cards you like - Study - Got bored and didn't finish all your cards? Stop and don't add any new card until you can finish quick enough to not get bored - Finishing quickly? Add more cards The exponentially increasing interval is your friend. Before you notice you won't be studying more than 10 cards a day :) It doesn't feel like it in the first ~10 days of a block of cards, but there's a jitter in the spacing function, so you will see the same block at the same time 2 or 3 times but then they'll start dispersing and be a lot less overwhelming. And most important of all: don't be afraid of slow progress: progress is progress!
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  I remember seeing people using flash cards in various science and math classes. The only thing that helped me to remember algos and derivations was to use them on some practical problem. I am as much as kinesthetic as visual learner, I think mainly because it keeps my brain from going into zombie repetition land. Don't even try to teach me something by just babbling about it in front of a class room. I need to experience the learning in some fashion. When all that fails I'll fall back on rote memorization and flash cards. I can definitely see its place in learning foreign languages (at least at the start, I always did better by using the words in sentences that forced me to think about them more than just as a jumble of letters)
  - Smaug123 6y ago
    This is true for most people; almost nobody is going to get a good understanding of something just by reading about it. But if you have already understood something, then Anki can help you solidify that understanding into the long term.
    - leppr 6y ago
      Actually for language learning at least, understanding doesn't need to come before rote memorization. While "stupidly" learning a one-two word definition might not allow you to understand how a word is actually used, it will allow you to get its meaning should you encounter it in native material, delaying understanding to that moment.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
I believe anki was originally devised for foreign language learning
coldtea 6y ago
>Staring at fact flashcards for hours on end just felt like a waste of time. Why would you need to "stare at fact flashcards for hours on end"? The whole idea is the opposite, to minimize learning time, and only stare at a flashcard periodically at the time when it makes more sense.
- Smaug123 6y ago
  I think this sounds symptomatic of having made flashcards which are too big. There was a time when I discovered this failure mode big-time: I basically burnt out of flashcarding, because my cards were all much too big.
  - eska 6y ago
    The memrise blog has some very important info about how one should create cards. Making them ask about only one thing in isolation is one of them. For example all downloadable Kanji decks basically ask "Kanji -> meaning, kun readings, on readings, nanori readings, translation, example jukugo, example sentence, pronunciation, stroke order, ...", i.e. not atomic at all. I have instead made my own deck where each Kanji has multiple cards that ask for different pairs of information. One of the important reasons is that I may have more trouble remembering one of those than the others, and that should not make me have to redo those others, since SRS should ask when I'm about to forget.
- rasen58 6y ago
  This happens quite a lot when using Anki where you have to start doing it for hours. If you stop doing for weeks, and then try to come back, there are so many cards piled up that it would take so long to go through that you just don't feel like doing it anymore. How would you solve this?
  - cehrlich 6y ago
    I've been using Anki to learn Japanese for about a year now, quite successfully. The largest factor determining your daily reviews is your daily new cards - it depends on retention somewhat, but in general daily reviews after a few months stabilize at around 10x daily new cards. So the best way to use Anki is to limit your daily new cards to an amount where you can easily handle the reviews. And yeah, you basically can't take a day off ever. Anki is very powerful, but you also need to structure your learning/routine around it somewhat, or maybe another way to look at it is that you need to make Anki work for you. I currently spend about 15-20 minutes a day on Anki, earlier on in my language learning it was over an hour a day.
colordrops 6y ago
Someone should just create an open source clone of Duo Lingo that can utilize user created content . It's basically anki with much more engaging visuals, game-ficication, and social aspects, and it works really well to keep users engaged both per session and long term.
- ngokevin 6y ago
  I'm doing a more social language learning app, starting with helping couples learn languages from each other. So it's like multiplayer Duolingo + Anki. Won't be open source, but I plan on an API with import / exports from Anki https://learncoupling.com https://learncoupling.com

agd 6y ago

I think to make the most of it you need to engage your imagination. Relating stories and context to the facts transforms it from ‘staring at flashcards for hours’ into more of a game and something to enjoy. And the great thing is, because of the spaced repetition, you don’t need to spend hours on it at a time. You can learn a lot in 5/10 mins a day.

leppr 6y ago
When I was starting Anki, I would spend time really focusing my thinking on the cards while reviewing them (reading sentences aloud multiple times until pronunciation is good, relating concepts to others, ...). I'm now convinced this is a waste of time and Anki is best used rushing through sessions as fast as possible (maximum 20min a day). This takes care of the small, boring but often essential rote memorization part, allowing you to use as much of your time and intellect for actual practice in the target domains. (This may not apply if the target domain is actually itself rote memorization, e.g. medical exams)
- BeetleB 6y ago
  20 min a day is still a lot - unless it's mostly due to adding a lot of cards per day.
  - tomcatfish 6y ago
    For context in this thread, my maximum study in the last 2 months was 10.42 minutes, but my mode (and average as well, that point is an outlier) is close to 3 or 4
wildpeaks 6y ago
This is exactly why I still lament the loss of my favorite language learning app: "Cat Academy" (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/catacademy https://www.wired.co.uk/article/catacademy) It was using flashcards of cats with funny captions and it actually worked. Sadly my old phone eventually broken and the app can't be installed from the appstore anymore.
- elliekelly 6y ago
  Have you tried fluent forever? their app uses a similar concept except you pick your own photos to help you remember. I finally found a use for many of the random photos of my dogs I’ve been saving in my phone for years!

snazz 6y ago

It really depends on what you're doing. Anki is the perfect tool for memorizing vocabulary in a new language, but it's not a replacement for practicing your writing or other creative endeavors. Each technique has its place.

Jtsummers 6y ago

Well, Anki isn’t meant to be used on its own. You are supposed to be doing those other things and Anki assists. Like if you were using it in a college chemistry course you’d have numerous facts in Anki, but still doing labs and other homework and things to exercise the knowledge. Anki itself is meant to help you remember better, but other things are needed to fully exercise that knowledge in appropriate contexts. I use it with Spanish, but without conversations with my wife and others or trying to read Spanish language content it would be a useless exercise on its own.

ngokevin 6y ago
Hey! I'm building an app for couples to learn languages from each other. I started building it because I've been learning Chinese with my wife, but mostly alone with Anki, so I wanted to make it more multiplayer. The app has an Anki-like backend, and augments the flashcards with guidance, feedback, and challenges with your wife. https://learncoupling.com https://learncoupling.com

wendyshu 6y ago

Indeed. I see the value of Anki for rote memorization, e.g. studying for a fact-based exam. But for more reasoning-based domains I'm skeptical.

eska 6y ago
But remembering facts is exactly what it's for..? And even reasoning-based domains have parts that require rote memorization. E.g. "what is the halting problem?" doesn't require any reasoning or understanding. One needs to know such definitions in order to even start the reasoning part.
account42 6y ago
I used Anki for maths with complex cards full of proof outlines and it worked just fine.

vslira 6y ago

> Staring at fact flashcards for hours on end just felt like a waste of time. I think I found your problem. Try this cycle: - Add however many cards you like - Study - Got bored and didn't finish all your cards? Stop and don't add any new card until you can finish quick enough to not get bored - Finishing quickly? Add more cards The exponentially increasing interval is your friend. Before you notice you won't be studying more than 10 cards a day :) It doesn't feel like it in the first ~10 days of a block of cards, but there's a jitter in the spacing function, so you will see the same block at the same time 2 or 3 times but then they'll start dispersing and be a lot less overwhelming. And most important of all: don't be afraid of slow progress: progress is progress!

stjohnswarts 6y ago
I remember seeing people using flash cards in various science and math classes. The only thing that helped me to remember algos and derivations was to use them on some practical problem. I am as much as kinesthetic as visual learner, I think mainly because it keeps my brain from going into zombie repetition land. Don't even try to teach me something by just babbling about it in front of a class room. I need to experience the learning in some fashion. When all that fails I'll fall back on rote memorization and flash cards. I can definitely see its place in learning foreign languages (at least at the start, I always did better by using the words in sentences that forced me to think about them more than just as a jumble of letters)
- Smaug123 6y ago
  This is true for most people; almost nobody is going to get a good understanding of something just by reading about it. But if you have already understood something, then Anki can help you solidify that understanding into the long term.
  - leppr 6y ago
    Actually for language learning at least, understanding doesn't need to come before rote memorization. While "stupidly" learning a one-two word definition might not allow you to understand how a word is actually used, it will allow you to get its meaning should you encounter it in native material, delaying understanding to that moment.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

I believe anki was originally devised for foreign language learning

coldtea 6y ago

>Staring at fact flashcards for hours on end just felt like a waste of time. Why would you need to "stare at fact flashcards for hours on end"? The whole idea is the opposite, to minimize learning time, and only stare at a flashcard periodically at the time when it makes more sense.

Smaug123 6y ago
I think this sounds symptomatic of having made flashcards which are too big. There was a time when I discovered this failure mode big-time: I basically burnt out of flashcarding, because my cards were all much too big.
- eska 6y ago
  The memrise blog has some very important info about how one should create cards. Making them ask about only one thing in isolation is one of them. For example all downloadable Kanji decks basically ask "Kanji -> meaning, kun readings, on readings, nanori readings, translation, example jukugo, example sentence, pronunciation, stroke order, ...", i.e. not atomic at all. I have instead made my own deck where each Kanji has multiple cards that ask for different pairs of information. One of the important reasons is that I may have more trouble remembering one of those than the others, and that should not make me have to redo those others, since SRS should ask when I'm about to forget.
rasen58 6y ago
This happens quite a lot when using Anki where you have to start doing it for hours. If you stop doing for weeks, and then try to come back, there are so many cards piled up that it would take so long to go through that you just don't feel like doing it anymore. How would you solve this?
- cehrlich 6y ago
  I've been using Anki to learn Japanese for about a year now, quite successfully. The largest factor determining your daily reviews is your daily new cards - it depends on retention somewhat, but in general daily reviews after a few months stabilize at around 10x daily new cards. So the best way to use Anki is to limit your daily new cards to an amount where you can easily handle the reviews. And yeah, you basically can't take a day off ever. Anki is very powerful, but you also need to structure your learning/routine around it somewhat, or maybe another way to look at it is that you need to make Anki work for you. I currently spend about 15-20 minutes a day on Anki, earlier on in my language learning it was over an hour a day.

colordrops 6y ago

Someone should just create an open source clone of Duo Lingo that can utilize user created content . It's basically anki with much more engaging visuals, game-ficication, and social aspects, and it works really well to keep users engaged both per session and long term.

ngokevin 6y ago
I'm doing a more social language learning app, starting with helping couples learn languages from each other. So it's like multiplayer Duolingo + Anki. Won't be open source, but I plan on an API with import / exports from Anki https://learncoupling.com https://learncoupling.com