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This is the type of question that doesn't really effect me as an Atheist. Even if there was intelligent life on Venus, how would my life be changed as an indivi

This is the type of question that doesn't really effect me as an Atheist. Even if there was intelligent life on Venus, how would my life be changed as an individual?

diegoholiveira 6y ago
As a catholic, it doesn't affect me either :)
- question000 6y ago
  Well I'll take the bait, is there like a second god for other planets and species? Would non-human intelligent life have souls? Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? Doesn't this mean that both creation stories are inconvertibly false? I understand that Catholics usually believe in evolution, but how could they square away the fact the vast majority of all life could exist without knowing salvation via Christ? Being ignorant of Christ doesn't automatically mean you are damned, but this now means belief in Christ is optional and kind of just a localized thing some humans choose to do. It really should effect you, if for example aliens claimed their savior was the "real" messiah, how could you dismiss that? I get that these are just dogmatic questions that arise everytime two religions become aware of each other, but it metaphysically pretty difficult too, like events the Rapture essentially cease to make sense or will have to be radically re-imagined. Questions about whether biblical commands apply to ET life are going to be difficult as well, let alone missionary work. Upon reflection ET life isn't necessarily bad for the logical consistency of religion as I initially thought, but is more organizationally difficult.
  - roenxi 6y ago
    > Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? The universe is quite large and the bible is a fairly small book. It is difficult to see how it could cover everything. If the prophets were adding interesting technical details on how the universe fits together hopefully some P = NP tips or guides to fission or somesuch would be further up on the priority list than the state of salvation of alien souls. I'm not religious at all, but I don't see why the Catholic worldview would have problems with the idea that aliens exist and God has made some sort of arrangement for them. Maybe god just compartmentalises civilisations really well, god has many talents.
  - Amezarak 6y ago
    > Well I'll take the bait, is there like a second god for other planets and species? No, the God of Catholicism is the God of all Creation. That means the entire universe, including time itself. > Would non-human intelligent life have souls? Catholic teaching is that all life has some manner of soul. Humans have rational souls. Intelligent life would therefore have souls. > Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? Doesn't this mean that both creation stories are inconvertibly false? Why would it? It doesn't claim to be comprehensive or complete. > how could they square away the fact the vast majority of all life could exist without knowing salvation via Christ? Being ignorant of Christ doesn't automatically mean you are damned, but this now means belief in Christ is optional and kind of just a localized thing some humans choose to do Many, many human begins lived and died without knowing Christ. Why would aliens present a problem? Perhaps they wouldn't even need it. CS Lewis wrote science fictions with un-Fallen aliens. Maybe such a thing could exist. > if for example aliens claimed their savior was the "real" messiah, how could you dismiss that? Catholics don't seem to have a problem dismissing other messiahs. Why would an alien messiah be different? > events the Rapture essentially cease to make sense or will have to be radically re-imagined. The Rapture as depicted in something like Left Behind is not how the event is generally understood in Catholicism or other sects. There's no reason it would have to change at all.
    - lancefisher 6y ago
      I really liked Perelandra and the space trilogy books from C.S. Lewis. Recommend read if your interested in exploring the Christian worldview and thoughts on aliens.
    - question000 6y ago
      So two points here I disagree with (though I'm not I a Catholic I can't really explain their belief system.) One is the belief a all intelligent things have a soul, obviously fetuses and intelligent life do, but animals functionally don't. Aliens could fall somewhere on the potential intelligence spectrum between sperm and fetus or only one in a billion could reach acceptable intelligence for a soul whatever that is deemed to be. What if they are intelligent, but physically cannot believe in God? Is that just metaphysically impossible? Second is that the Bible doesn't claim to be comprehensive. This kind of weird to argue against, basically anything disagreeable in the Bible could be controverted then. It's like saying there COULD be an 11th commandment or something of that nature. It makes the Bible not necessarily wrong but difficult to take seriously.
  - hprotagonist 6y ago
    An implicit belief in life we don’t know about was an uncontentious part of church doctrine for a very long time. The basic gist is the understanding that Creation is not parsimonious. It is joyfully over-abundant. Then, why wouldn’t there be life everywhere? Tangentially, i think the more important thing to remark on here is how that fundamental approach which proclaims that the world is not zero-sum has shifted, especially in modern times. I’d suggest that it’s not a positive shift.
  - jcims 6y ago
    >I understand that Catholics usually believe in evolution, but how could they square away the fact the vast majority of all life could exist without knowing salvation via Christ? What if they did? They could be asking the same questions of us right now.
  - geofft 6y ago
    Christ took the form of a human and underwent human death, in a thematic response to the fall of the first human as recounted in the Bible's creation story. Neither Genesis nor the Gospels are to be read as complete lab notebooks of creation and redemption in sufficient detail to allow others to replicate it. They are stories of the relationship between God and humanity. If there are other human-level-intelligent species, there are a number of possibilities, including that they had their own messiah that took their form to fix whatever they'd screwed up, that they had the very same messiah, or that they didn't need one in the first place. It's possible that they don't die, in which case it wouldn't really make sense to apply Christ's redemption to them - but we still die, and so the concept of Christ defeating death by his own death does not become any less applicable to us. (As another commenter mentioned - C. S. Lewis's Space Trilogy explores the idea that only humanity fell, and intelligent life on the other planets knows God but didn't need the redemption of Christ.)
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? That's not really a problem Catholics have. It might be for Christian groups that have a different view of the role of the Bible. Though I suspect the discovery of extraterrestrial intelligence will also expand the scope of interpretations of various parts of the Bible, including John 10:16, so “this wasn't mentioned in the Bible” will be a disputed point. > I understand that Catholics usually believe in evolution, but how could they square away the fact the vast majority of all life could exist without knowing salvation via Christ? There was a time that that was true of the vast majority of humans; if that's not a problem why would it be that it is today true of a broader class? Beyond that, there a various schools of thought on the issue within Catholicism: https://www.archbalt.org/vatican-astronomer-says-if-aliens-exist-they-may-not-need-redemption/ https://www.archbalt.org/vatican-astronomer-says-if-aliens-e... > if for example aliens claimed their savior was the "real" messiah, how could you dismiss that? If a heterodox human cult does that, how do we dismiss that? There's literally no difference.
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    >Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? After the Cain and Abel story, doesn't Cain go off and settle in some other city? If those people don't present a problem in explaining origins, why would extraterrestrials? They would be completely un-un-precedented.
coldtea 6y ago
>This is the type of question that doesn't really effect me as an Atheist. Even if there was intelligent life on Venus, how would my life be changed as an individual? That's not much an atheist vs religious person issue. That's more of a "I care about what's around me and have a curiousity" versus "I don't give a duck unless it affects me personally" case. One could say the same about the discovery of the library of Alexandria's lost volumes intact. "Why would I care? How would my life be changed as an individual, I don't read such old stuff". Well, many others would jump up and down with joy at such news...

This is the type of question that doesn't really effect me as an Atheist. Even if there was intelligent life on Venus, how would my life be changed as an individual?

diegoholiveira 6y ago

As a catholic, it doesn't affect me either :)

question000 6y ago
Well I'll take the bait, is there like a second god for other planets and species? Would non-human intelligent life have souls? Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? Doesn't this mean that both creation stories are inconvertibly false? I understand that Catholics usually believe in evolution, but how could they square away the fact the vast majority of all life could exist without knowing salvation via Christ? Being ignorant of Christ doesn't automatically mean you are damned, but this now means belief in Christ is optional and kind of just a localized thing some humans choose to do. It really should effect you, if for example aliens claimed their savior was the "real" messiah, how could you dismiss that? I get that these are just dogmatic questions that arise everytime two religions become aware of each other, but it metaphysically pretty difficult too, like events the Rapture essentially cease to make sense or will have to be radically re-imagined. Questions about whether biblical commands apply to ET life are going to be difficult as well, let alone missionary work. Upon reflection ET life isn't necessarily bad for the logical consistency of religion as I initially thought, but is more organizationally difficult.
- roenxi 6y ago
  > Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? The universe is quite large and the bible is a fairly small book. It is difficult to see how it could cover everything. If the prophets were adding interesting technical details on how the universe fits together hopefully some P = NP tips or guides to fission or somesuch would be further up on the priority list than the state of salvation of alien souls. I'm not religious at all, but I don't see why the Catholic worldview would have problems with the idea that aliens exist and God has made some sort of arrangement for them. Maybe god just compartmentalises civilisations really well, god has many talents.
- Amezarak 6y ago
  > Well I'll take the bait, is there like a second god for other planets and species? No, the God of Catholicism is the God of all Creation. That means the entire universe, including time itself. > Would non-human intelligent life have souls? Catholic teaching is that all life has some manner of soul. Humans have rational souls. Intelligent life would therefore have souls. > Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? Doesn't this mean that both creation stories are inconvertibly false? Why would it? It doesn't claim to be comprehensive or complete. > how could they square away the fact the vast majority of all life could exist without knowing salvation via Christ? Being ignorant of Christ doesn't automatically mean you are damned, but this now means belief in Christ is optional and kind of just a localized thing some humans choose to do Many, many human begins lived and died without knowing Christ. Why would aliens present a problem? Perhaps they wouldn't even need it. CS Lewis wrote science fictions with un-Fallen aliens. Maybe such a thing could exist. > if for example aliens claimed their savior was the "real" messiah, how could you dismiss that? Catholics don't seem to have a problem dismissing other messiahs. Why would an alien messiah be different? > events the Rapture essentially cease to make sense or will have to be radically re-imagined. The Rapture as depicted in something like Left Behind is not how the event is generally understood in Catholicism or other sects. There's no reason it would have to change at all.
  - lancefisher 6y ago
    I really liked Perelandra and the space trilogy books from C.S. Lewis. Recommend read if your interested in exploring the Christian worldview and thoughts on aliens.
  - question000 6y ago
    So two points here I disagree with (though I'm not I a Catholic I can't really explain their belief system.) One is the belief a all intelligent things have a soul, obviously fetuses and intelligent life do, but animals functionally don't. Aliens could fall somewhere on the potential intelligence spectrum between sperm and fetus or only one in a billion could reach acceptable intelligence for a soul whatever that is deemed to be. What if they are intelligent, but physically cannot believe in God? Is that just metaphysically impossible? Second is that the Bible doesn't claim to be comprehensive. This kind of weird to argue against, basically anything disagreeable in the Bible could be controverted then. It's like saying there COULD be an 11th commandment or something of that nature. It makes the Bible not necessarily wrong but difficult to take seriously.
- hprotagonist 6y ago
  An implicit belief in life we don’t know about was an uncontentious part of church doctrine for a very long time. The basic gist is the understanding that Creation is not parsimonious. It is joyfully over-abundant. Then, why wouldn’t there be life everywhere? Tangentially, i think the more important thing to remark on here is how that fundamental approach which proclaims that the world is not zero-sum has shifted, especially in modern times. I’d suggest that it’s not a positive shift.
- jcims 6y ago
  >I understand that Catholics usually believe in evolution, but how could they square away the fact the vast majority of all life could exist without knowing salvation via Christ? What if they did? They could be asking the same questions of us right now.
- geofft 6y ago
  Christ took the form of a human and underwent human death, in a thematic response to the fall of the first human as recounted in the Bible's creation story. Neither Genesis nor the Gospels are to be read as complete lab notebooks of creation and redemption in sufficient detail to allow others to replicate it. They are stories of the relationship between God and humanity. If there are other human-level-intelligent species, there are a number of possibilities, including that they had their own messiah that took their form to fix whatever they'd screwed up, that they had the very same messiah, or that they didn't need one in the first place. It's possible that they don't die, in which case it wouldn't really make sense to apply Christ's redemption to them - but we still die, and so the concept of Christ defeating death by his own death does not become any less applicable to us. (As another commenter mentioned - C. S. Lewis's Space Trilogy explores the idea that only humanity fell, and intelligent life on the other planets knows God but didn't need the redemption of Christ.)
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? That's not really a problem Catholics have. It might be for Christian groups that have a different view of the role of the Bible. Though I suspect the discovery of extraterrestrial intelligence will also expand the scope of interpretations of various parts of the Bible, including John 10:16, so “this wasn't mentioned in the Bible” will be a disputed point. > I understand that Catholics usually believe in evolution, but how could they square away the fact the vast majority of all life could exist without knowing salvation via Christ? There was a time that that was true of the vast majority of humans; if that's not a problem why would it be that it is today true of a broader class? Beyond that, there a various schools of thought on the issue within Catholicism: https://www.archbalt.org/vatican-astronomer-says-if-aliens-exist-they-may-not-need-redemption/ https://www.archbalt.org/vatican-astronomer-says-if-aliens-e... > if for example aliens claimed their savior was the "real" messiah, how could you dismiss that? If a heterodox human cult does that, how do we dismiss that? There's literally no difference.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  >Why wasn't this mentioned in the Bible? After the Cain and Abel story, doesn't Cain go off and settle in some other city? If those people don't present a problem in explaining origins, why would extraterrestrials? They would be completely un-un-precedented.

coldtea 6y ago

>This is the type of question that doesn't really effect me as an Atheist. Even if there was intelligent life on Venus, how would my life be changed as an individual? That's not much an atheist vs religious person issue. That's more of a "I care about what's around me and have a curiousity" versus "I don't give a duck unless it affects me personally" case. One could say the same about the discovery of the library of Alexandria's lost volumes intact. "Why would I care? How would my life be changed as an individual, I don't read such old stuff". Well, many others would jump up and down with joy at such news...