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> That reality isn’t continuing now Where's your proof? Police have killed nearly just as many people in 2020 as 2019 (850 vs. 861), despite the pandemic and l

> That reality isn’t continuing now Where's your proof? Police have killed nearly just as many people in 2020 as 2019 (850 vs. 861), despite the pandemic and lockdown. https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

koolba 6y ago
850 people in a country of 328,000,000 is incredibly small. Does that include people that were actively resisting arrest such as firing on the police? For reference, in non-COVID time, about 100 people die each day in car accidents.
- Fezzik 6y ago
  The car accident comparison has got to stop. It is meaningless. What point do you think that reference helps to clarify? I ask that curiously, not hostilely. I fail to understand how it is helpful to compare the number of people shot and killed un/necessarily by police officers to those killed in car crashes. It seems like the goal is to attempt to diminish the severity of the problem of police killing people by finding a bigger number of people dying to a different cause... which is just silly. The two are not comparable problems and each requires completely different solutions. I think a helpful comparison is examining how in other first world countries the police kill almost nobody. Per capita, more people are killed by law enforcement in the US than in any other 1st world country by a huge margin. Edit: clarity
  - koolba 6y ago
    > The car accident comparison has got to stop. It is meaningless. What point do you think that reference helps to clarify? I ask that curiously, not hostilely. I fail to understand how it is helpful to compare the number of people shot and killed un/necessarily by police officers to those killed in car crashes. It seems like the goal is to attempt to diminish the severity of the problem of police killing people by finding a bigger number of people dying to a different cause... which is just silly. The reference is to allow for comparison. Most people have no feeling for absolute statistics. Comparing something in relative terms to the numbers for something with which they have a daily experience, helps to provide context for the scale or severity of a problem. > The two are not comparable problems and each requires completely different solutions. Nobody said they require the same solution. The point is to grasp the scale of the problem. > I think a helpful comparison is examining how in other first world countries the police kill almost nobody. Per capita, more people are killed by law enforcement in the US than in any other 1st world country by a huge margin. You'll get little sympathy for people actively fighting back and resisting arrest. I think it's more relevant to look at the number of unarmed people killed by law enforcement: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-rac... In 2019 that was 28 people (9 black, 19 white). Again, that's in a country of 330,000,000 people. Yes, it is disproportionately black vs the general population. But there are other factors like income and housing density that come into play. And in absolute terms it's a very small number of the total population. Yes, we should be reducing that further but it's not a problem of police randomly killing blacks. And it's nowhere near the scale of other problems that are killing people or blacks specifically. Last year in Chicago alone, there were 349 black homicides.
    - tomnipotent 6y ago
      This is such a bullshit argument, "Why, only a small percentage of police interactions end with a shooting, and most of them are armed!" And you link to a conservatives opinion piece, which isn't biased at all. US police kill 33.5 people per 10M, which is nearly 3x our closest neighbor (who has imported our policing strategies, unfortunately). Canada: 9.8 Australia: 8.5 Netherlands: 2.3 New Zealand: 2.0 Germany: 1.3 England: 0.5 Japan: 0.2 Iceland: 0 Norway: 0 There is NO excuse for how many people police murder every year, when most of the world has demonstrated it isn't necessary. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/
      - rbecker 6y ago
        One would expect the rate of police killings to be proportional to the homicide rate, since that is what is supposed to drive dangerous police encounters. Looking at police kills per 10M, divided by the homicide rate per 100k: Australia: 9.55 Egypt: 8.45 USA: 6.75 Canada: 5.57 Sweden: 5.56 Norway: 4.04 Netherlands: 3.90 New Zealand: 2.86 Germany: 1.37 Japan: 0.77 England: 0.42 So 41% less than the rate of Australia, 21% more than Canada and Sweden, 67% more than Norway, and 73% more than the Netherlands. Not great, but not terrible. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/ https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-ki... for countries not on prisonpolicy.org https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
- tomnipotent 6y ago
  > about 100 people die each day in car accidents I fail to understand how this has to do with anything. There are considerably more people driving cars than interacting with the police, probably more than 10000x. Which means, you're statistically more likely to be killed by police than in a car. No other developed "1st world" country even comes close to the number of deaths per capita by police than the U.S. This is 850 lives and many thousands of family members affected each year by gross negligence, of which most deaths could have easily been avoided. Guess what other countries share similar police killing rates as the U.S.? Iran and the Philippines.
SamReidHughes 6y ago
See my other reply that cites the Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed statistics. Also, you can pick ten black and ten white shootings at random and see what went down yourself. Though you shouldn't need to, if you're lazy. Just look at the justified shootings people have been protesting this year, because there haven't been enough legitimate bad ones.

koolba 6y ago

850 people in a country of 328,000,000 is incredibly small. Does that include people that were actively resisting arrest such as firing on the police? For reference, in non-COVID time, about 100 people die each day in car accidents.

Fezzik 6y ago
The car accident comparison has got to stop. It is meaningless. What point do you think that reference helps to clarify? I ask that curiously, not hostilely. I fail to understand how it is helpful to compare the number of people shot and killed un/necessarily by police officers to those killed in car crashes. It seems like the goal is to attempt to diminish the severity of the problem of police killing people by finding a bigger number of people dying to a different cause... which is just silly. The two are not comparable problems and each requires completely different solutions. I think a helpful comparison is examining how in other first world countries the police kill almost nobody. Per capita, more people are killed by law enforcement in the US than in any other 1st world country by a huge margin. Edit: clarity
- koolba 6y ago
  > The car accident comparison has got to stop. It is meaningless. What point do you think that reference helps to clarify? I ask that curiously, not hostilely. I fail to understand how it is helpful to compare the number of people shot and killed un/necessarily by police officers to those killed in car crashes. It seems like the goal is to attempt to diminish the severity of the problem of police killing people by finding a bigger number of people dying to a different cause... which is just silly. The reference is to allow for comparison. Most people have no feeling for absolute statistics. Comparing something in relative terms to the numbers for something with which they have a daily experience, helps to provide context for the scale or severity of a problem. > The two are not comparable problems and each requires completely different solutions. Nobody said they require the same solution. The point is to grasp the scale of the problem. > I think a helpful comparison is examining how in other first world countries the police kill almost nobody. Per capita, more people are killed by law enforcement in the US than in any other 1st world country by a huge margin. You'll get little sympathy for people actively fighting back and resisting arrest. I think it's more relevant to look at the number of unarmed people killed by law enforcement: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-rac... In 2019 that was 28 people (9 black, 19 white). Again, that's in a country of 330,000,000 people. Yes, it is disproportionately black vs the general population. But there are other factors like income and housing density that come into play. And in absolute terms it's a very small number of the total population. Yes, we should be reducing that further but it's not a problem of police randomly killing blacks. And it's nowhere near the scale of other problems that are killing people or blacks specifically. Last year in Chicago alone, there were 349 black homicides.
  - tomnipotent 6y ago
    This is such a bullshit argument, "Why, only a small percentage of police interactions end with a shooting, and most of them are armed!" And you link to a conservatives opinion piece, which isn't biased at all. US police kill 33.5 people per 10M, which is nearly 3x our closest neighbor (who has imported our policing strategies, unfortunately). Canada: 9.8 Australia: 8.5 Netherlands: 2.3 New Zealand: 2.0 Germany: 1.3 England: 0.5 Japan: 0.2 Iceland: 0 Norway: 0 There is NO excuse for how many people police murder every year, when most of the world has demonstrated it isn't necessary. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/
    - rbecker 6y ago
      One would expect the rate of police killings to be proportional to the homicide rate, since that is what is supposed to drive dangerous police encounters. Looking at police kills per 10M, divided by the homicide rate per 100k: Australia: 9.55 Egypt: 8.45 USA: 6.75 Canada: 5.57 Sweden: 5.56 Norway: 4.04 Netherlands: 3.90 New Zealand: 2.86 Germany: 1.37 Japan: 0.77 England: 0.42 So 41% less than the rate of Australia, 21% more than Canada and Sweden, 67% more than Norway, and 73% more than the Netherlands. Not great, but not terrible. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/ https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-ki... for countries not on prisonpolicy.org https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
tomnipotent 6y ago
> about 100 people die each day in car accidents I fail to understand how this has to do with anything. There are considerably more people driving cars than interacting with the police, probably more than 10000x. Which means, you're statistically more likely to be killed by police than in a car. No other developed "1st world" country even comes close to the number of deaths per capita by police than the U.S. This is 850 lives and many thousands of family members affected each year by gross negligence, of which most deaths could have easily been avoided. Guess what other countries share similar police killing rates as the U.S.? Iran and the Philippines.

SamReidHughes 6y ago

See my other reply that cites the Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed statistics. Also, you can pick ten black and ten white shootings at random and see what went down yourself. Though you shouldn't need to, if you're lazy. Just look at the justified shootings people have been protesting this year, because there haven't been enough legitimate bad ones.