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> Many of the victims from the area, also called Black Wall Street, are thought to have been buried in mass graves, but there are few recordds that exist from t

> Many of the victims from the area, also called Black Wall Street, are thought to have been buried in mass graves, but there are few recordds that exist from the massacre or the burials. Just in case your first exposure was from a different source, people started saying "black lives matter" because of the instances where people acted callously or apathetic towards the lives of black people, and the centuries of history in the Americas that are congruent with and reinforce that reality continuing now. It has since been assigned to a faction and movement that has very little to do with the point of why people are saying it. Hope that helps someone! There are a lot of people that think this came out of the blue and interpret the chants as an impending pogrom putting some people's lives above others, but that is a distortion that is furthest from the truth.

mssundaram 6y ago
Perhaps you're getting down voted for pointing out that the BLM organization is different than the sentiment that yes, black lives matter. I've found you can't criticize the BLM organization or else it's equated that you think black lives do not matter.
- neither_color 6y ago
  Exactly. It’s an organization with a website, a donation page, and a published set of beliefs on that website, but I can’t seem to say anything about it that isn’t emphatic agreement without getting back loaded questions about how how racist I might be. When Fortune 500 companies are donating to the cause and its brand imagery is showing up everywhere from video games to github, then we have a right to critique it without fearing social ostracism.
- eplanit 6y ago
  "I've found you can't criticize the BLM organization or else it's equated that you think black lives do not matter" I think that's by design.
  - mssundaram 6y ago
    > I think that's by design. Which way do you mean this? I can interpret that in a few different ways
  - junon 6y ago
    Correct. It's the same as "antifa". I can't criticize the group without being called a nazi. These things are named this way to weaponize them.
- ta8645 6y ago
  Those fighting for people to see where our society is falling short of its promise for blacks, should be the first to distance themselves from the BLM organization. It muddies the water and makes people who would gladly support any fight against racial injustice leery of voicing that support, for fear of it inadvertently supporting and emboldening the communists leading the BLM organization.
  - toyg 6y ago
    As somebody with a cursory interest in communist movements across the centuries, I’d be curious to know how BLM leaders are “communists”. Do they advocate for collective ownership of the means of production?
    - exolymph 6y ago
      There is some substance to the claim, although the people highlighting it are predictably motivated: https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herse... Communism can be pretty fashionable these days.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > I’d be curious to know how BLM leaders are “communists”. One possible explanation: Patrisse Cullors specifically has credited Marx, Lenin, and other Communist figures as ideological inspiration (which isn't the same thing as being a Communist, to be sure.) I think it was also Cullors who made a comment about herself and one of the other founders (Alicia Garza, I think) being “trained Marxists” in, as I recall, the context of explaining some of their strategic/orgabizing approaches, not ideological goals.
- mullingitover 6y ago
  There were a lot of people during the civil rights era who were upset that they couldn't criticize Martin Luther King or it would be equated as being against equal rights. Maybe the problem is that you're overly concerned with how you can safely criticize the movement. Do you personally think black lives matter? Have you spent as much time criticizing the problems that created the movement as you have spent criticizing the movement itself?
  - nerdponx 6y ago
    Yet it's a valid criticism.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
mullingitover 6y ago
> There are a lot of people that think this came out of the blue and interpret the chants as an impending pogrom putting some people's lives above others, but that is a distortion that is furthest from the truth. Indeed. There's a lot of knee-jerk reaction against Black Lives Matter, and an eagerness to establish who the leaders are so it and everyone involved can be discredited. However, it's not an organization, it's a movement. Do you think the lives of black people matter? Then you're part of Black Lives Matter.
- lisper 6y ago
  And, it is important to note, saying "black lives matter" emphatically does NOT mean that you think that non-black lives don't matter. But the sad fact of the matter is that historically black lives have often not mattered as much as non-black lives, and sometimes (perhaps even often) still don't even today. That's the reason for the emphasis being placed where it is.
  - junon 6y ago
    In the US*.
    - jchanimal 6y ago
      And the rest of the world, where colonialist policies have left a historical legacy of disenfranchisement among less-favored groups, often along color lines.
    - js2 6y ago
      Not just in the US: https://www.creosotemaps.com/blm2020/ https://www.creosotemaps.com/blm2020/
    - Krollifi 6y ago
      Palestinian lives also matter.
- neither_color 6y ago
  > Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, Inc. is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, From their website: https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/ https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/
SamReidHughes 6y ago
That reality isn’t continuing now. There’s a big list of all the police shootings, maintained by the Washington Post, and it tells a different story.
- rbecker 6y ago
  Could you elaborate?
- tomnipotent 6y ago
  > That reality isn’t continuing now Where's your proof? Police have killed nearly just as many people in 2020 as 2019 (850 vs. 861), despite the pandemic and lockdown. https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
  - koolba 6y ago
    850 people in a country of 328,000,000 is incredibly small. Does that include people that were actively resisting arrest such as firing on the police? For reference, in non-COVID time, about 100 people die each day in car accidents.
    - Fezzik 6y ago
      The car accident comparison has got to stop. It is meaningless. What point do you think that reference helps to clarify? I ask that curiously, not hostilely. I fail to understand how it is helpful to compare the number of people shot and killed un/necessarily by police officers to those killed in car crashes. It seems like the goal is to attempt to diminish the severity of the problem of police killing people by finding a bigger number of people dying to a different cause... which is just silly. The two are not comparable problems and each requires completely different solutions. I think a helpful comparison is examining how in other first world countries the police kill almost nobody. Per capita, more people are killed by law enforcement in the US than in any other 1st world country by a huge margin. Edit: clarity
      - 6y ago

mssundaram 6y ago

Perhaps you're getting down voted for pointing out that the BLM organization is different than the sentiment that yes, black lives matter. I've found you can't criticize the BLM organization or else it's equated that you think black lives do not matter.

neither_color 6y ago
Exactly. It’s an organization with a website, a donation page, and a published set of beliefs on that website, but I can’t seem to say anything about it that isn’t emphatic agreement without getting back loaded questions about how how racist I might be. When Fortune 500 companies are donating to the cause and its brand imagery is showing up everywhere from video games to github, then we have a right to critique it without fearing social ostracism.
eplanit 6y ago
"I've found you can't criticize the BLM organization or else it's equated that you think black lives do not matter" I think that's by design.
- mssundaram 6y ago
  > I think that's by design. Which way do you mean this? I can interpret that in a few different ways
- junon 6y ago
  Correct. It's the same as "antifa". I can't criticize the group without being called a nazi. These things are named this way to weaponize them.
ta8645 6y ago
Those fighting for people to see where our society is falling short of its promise for blacks, should be the first to distance themselves from the BLM organization. It muddies the water and makes people who would gladly support any fight against racial injustice leery of voicing that support, for fear of it inadvertently supporting and emboldening the communists leading the BLM organization.
- toyg 6y ago
  As somebody with a cursory interest in communist movements across the centuries, I’d be curious to know how BLM leaders are “communists”. Do they advocate for collective ownership of the means of production?
  - exolymph 6y ago
    There is some substance to the claim, although the people highlighting it are predictably motivated: https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herse... Communism can be pretty fashionable these days.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > I’d be curious to know how BLM leaders are “communists”. One possible explanation: Patrisse Cullors specifically has credited Marx, Lenin, and other Communist figures as ideological inspiration (which isn't the same thing as being a Communist, to be sure.) I think it was also Cullors who made a comment about herself and one of the other founders (Alicia Garza, I think) being “trained Marxists” in, as I recall, the context of explaining some of their strategic/orgabizing approaches, not ideological goals.
mullingitover 6y ago
There were a lot of people during the civil rights era who were upset that they couldn't criticize Martin Luther King or it would be equated as being against equal rights. Maybe the problem is that you're overly concerned with how you can safely criticize the movement. Do you personally think black lives matter? Have you spent as much time criticizing the problems that created the movement as you have spent criticizing the movement itself?
- nerdponx 6y ago
  Yet it's a valid criticism.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

mullingitover 6y ago

> There are a lot of people that think this came out of the blue and interpret the chants as an impending pogrom putting some people's lives above others, but that is a distortion that is furthest from the truth. Indeed. There's a lot of knee-jerk reaction against Black Lives Matter, and an eagerness to establish who the leaders are so it and everyone involved can be discredited. However, it's not an organization, it's a movement. Do you think the lives of black people matter? Then you're part of Black Lives Matter.

lisper 6y ago
And, it is important to note, saying "black lives matter" emphatically does NOT mean that you think that non-black lives don't matter. But the sad fact of the matter is that historically black lives have often not mattered as much as non-black lives, and sometimes (perhaps even often) still don't even today. That's the reason for the emphasis being placed where it is.
- junon 6y ago
  In the US*.
  - jchanimal 6y ago
    And the rest of the world, where colonialist policies have left a historical legacy of disenfranchisement among less-favored groups, often along color lines.
  - js2 6y ago
    Not just in the US: https://www.creosotemaps.com/blm2020/ https://www.creosotemaps.com/blm2020/
  - Krollifi 6y ago
    Palestinian lives also matter.
neither_color 6y ago
> Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, Inc. is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, From their website: https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/ https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

SamReidHughes 6y ago

That reality isn’t continuing now. There’s a big list of all the police shootings, maintained by the Washington Post, and it tells a different story.

rbecker 6y ago
Could you elaborate?
tomnipotent 6y ago
> That reality isn’t continuing now Where's your proof? Police have killed nearly just as many people in 2020 as 2019 (850 vs. 861), despite the pandemic and lockdown. https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
- koolba 6y ago
  850 people in a country of 328,000,000 is incredibly small. Does that include people that were actively resisting arrest such as firing on the police? For reference, in non-COVID time, about 100 people die each day in car accidents.
  - Fezzik 6y ago
    The car accident comparison has got to stop. It is meaningless. What point do you think that reference helps to clarify? I ask that curiously, not hostilely. I fail to understand how it is helpful to compare the number of people shot and killed un/necessarily by police officers to those killed in car crashes. It seems like the goal is to attempt to diminish the severity of the problem of police killing people by finding a bigger number of people dying to a different cause... which is just silly. The two are not comparable problems and each requires completely different solutions. I think a helpful comparison is examining how in other first world countries the police kill almost nobody. Per capita, more people are killed by law enforcement in the US than in any other 1st world country by a huge margin. Edit: clarity
    - 6y ago