5 ms·

As an end user of Firefox, I find it very frustrating that every update I allow to the browser wrests more control from me, and now I am being constantly annoye

by ouid 6y ago

As an end user of Firefox, I find it very frustrating that every update I allow to the browser wrests more control from me, and now I am being constantly annoyed to keep my browser up to date as well.

acdha 6y ago
> I am being constantly annoyed to keep my browser up to date as well. Imagine how annoyed you’d find it to have all of your accounts compromised and your personal data out in public or held for ransom. We know that most people don’t install updates in a timely manner because we have 3 decades of evidence from billions of devices.
- ouid 6y ago
  The question is not when I will install my updates, but if. Generally the answer is that I won't apply any patches at all. If you refuse to acknowledge that updates a) also introduce bugs, and b) consistently have negative impacts on the software, then I don't see how we can possibly have an honest conversation about this. I certainly do not consider the security of my browsing experience to be such an important factor that I am willing to sacrifice all of my autonomy to obtain marginally more of it. This is the same argument that has been applied countless times to all sorts of monetization and surveillance disguised as security. I simply accept the risks.
  - dralley 6y ago
    Switch to the ESR build, then.
  - acdha 6y ago
    This is like trying to argue that cars shouldn't have safety equipment because you don't want to pay for something you don't [yet] agree you need. A web browser is extremely complex and usually the most security-sensitive software most people use. You don't have the resources to maintain a fork so if you really dislike the decisions made by the Mozilla developer team, switch to a different browser rather than making your browser experience worse and putting yourself at risk.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- diggernet 6y ago
  That's fine. But there should still be options available for: - Notify me that an update is available (and the download size), and let me decide whether to download it now or not. I know better than you do what the download will cost me, or I might have a specific reason you don't know about not to install this update (yet, or ever). - Go ahead and download an update, and ask me whether to install it now and restart the browser, or wait to install until next browser startup. Because I know better than you do whether forcing me to Stop Right Now is too disruptive. How would having those options available for people who choose to control their own computer cause any harm for the majority who leave the default setting? And what on earth makes you think that forcing an update right now, in the middle of what I'm doing, will keep me from being compromised by the site I'm already using??
  - acdha 6y ago
    Since those options are already built-in, I think it's safe to say that the Firefox developers agree with you.
    - diggernet 6y ago
      Oh? Where? I go to about:preferences, and scroll down to Firefox Updates. Below that, it says "Keep Firefox up to date for the best performance, stability, and security." And then there's the version and a "What's new" link. No actual settings of any kind. Based on tips found online, I've set app.update.auto=false, but that has had no effect.
      - acdha 6y ago
        On a standard Firefox install the preferences dialog has a radio button to choose between automatic installs and checking but not downloading until you choose. https://www.dropbox.com/s/sg19e5pvhdrt05h/Screen%20Shot%202020-10-23%20at%209.26.04%20PM.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/sg19e5pvhdrt05h/Screen%20Shot%2020...
        diggernet 6y ago
uallo 6y ago
Firefox Extended Support Release: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/enterprise/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/enterprise/
- ohazi 6y ago
  "delaying the inevitable"
- vaccinator 6y ago
  I dont see Android

by ouid 6y ago

acdha 6y ago

> I am being constantly annoyed to keep my browser up to date as well. Imagine how annoyed you’d find it to have all of your accounts compromised and your personal data out in public or held for ransom. We know that most people don’t install updates in a timely manner because we have 3 decades of evidence from billions of devices.

ouid 6y ago
The question is not when I will install my updates, but if. Generally the answer is that I won't apply any patches at all. If you refuse to acknowledge that updates a) also introduce bugs, and b) consistently have negative impacts on the software, then I don't see how we can possibly have an honest conversation about this. I certainly do not consider the security of my browsing experience to be such an important factor that I am willing to sacrifice all of my autonomy to obtain marginally more of it. This is the same argument that has been applied countless times to all sorts of monetization and surveillance disguised as security. I simply accept the risks.
- dralley 6y ago
  Switch to the ESR build, then.
- acdha 6y ago
  This is like trying to argue that cars shouldn't have safety equipment because you don't want to pay for something you don't [yet] agree you need. A web browser is extremely complex and usually the most security-sensitive software most people use. You don't have the resources to maintain a fork so if you really dislike the decisions made by the Mozilla developer team, switch to a different browser rather than making your browser experience worse and putting yourself at risk.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
diggernet 6y ago
That's fine. But there should still be options available for: - Notify me that an update is available (and the download size), and let me decide whether to download it now or not. I know better than you do what the download will cost me, or I might have a specific reason you don't know about not to install this update (yet, or ever). - Go ahead and download an update, and ask me whether to install it now and restart the browser, or wait to install until next browser startup. Because I know better than you do whether forcing me to Stop Right Now is too disruptive. How would having those options available for people who choose to control their own computer cause any harm for the majority who leave the default setting? And what on earth makes you think that forcing an update right now, in the middle of what I'm doing, will keep me from being compromised by the site I'm already using??
- acdha 6y ago
  Since those options are already built-in, I think it's safe to say that the Firefox developers agree with you.
  - diggernet 6y ago
    Oh? Where? I go to about:preferences, and scroll down to Firefox Updates. Below that, it says "Keep Firefox up to date for the best performance, stability, and security." And then there's the version and a "What's new" link. No actual settings of any kind. Based on tips found online, I've set app.update.auto=false, but that has had no effect.
    - acdha 6y ago
      On a standard Firefox install the preferences dialog has a radio button to choose between automatic installs and checking but not downloading until you choose. https://www.dropbox.com/s/sg19e5pvhdrt05h/Screen%20Shot%202020-10-23%20at%209.26.04%20PM.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/sg19e5pvhdrt05h/Screen%20Shot%2020...
      - diggernet 6y ago

uallo 6y ago

Firefox Extended Support Release: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/enterprise/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/enterprise/

ohazi 6y ago
"delaying the inevitable"
vaccinator 6y ago
I dont see Android