5 ms·

Perhaps I find myself in the minority, but I really enjoy living in a city with somewhat sane zoning. As a US-citizen who doesn't want to live abroad, my choic

Perhaps I find myself in the minority, but I really enjoy living in a city with somewhat sane zoning. As a US-citizen who doesn't want to live abroad, my choices are limited if I want to live outside of a de-facto suburb. I want to walk most places, utilize public transit, have access to stores and coffee shops without a drive, and naturally live close to friends. My partner and I don't need too much space, and I'd rather go to a dog park and chat with people than play with my dog in a backyard alone. The Le Corbusier spirit of zoning has wrought so much damage in the US. I dread the idea of having to jump in a car for 15 minutes to shop for groceries in a strip mall. Most suburbs really destroy natural community (and I suppose that was the point of Le Corbusier's ideas around planning: like the gigantic squares in Brasilia) too. (I realize my comment here is all over the place, sorry!)

stronglikedan 6y ago
I live in a suburb where I can walk most places, utilize public transit, have access to stores and coffee shops without a drive, and live close to friends and work (4 mi). They do exist! (Although, they are admittedly few and far between.)
- MH15 6y ago
  Suburbs with public transit! Now that's something
  - stronglikedan 6y ago
    I mean, it's a five minute walk to the bus stop, but it's also just a 15 minute walk to every type of store/gym/restaurant I need. So, while I personally don't use the public transport, it's there if I ever need it.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    The American suburb was invented by streetcars.
- opportune 6y ago
  I’ve noticed there are a lot of these kinds of suburbs by some large cities in the West. For example: most of the towns in the SF peninsula, Bellevue/Renton, many suburbs of LA and parts of OC. Whereas when many people think of suburbs in the rest of the country, it’s like one or two large highway exits surrounded by chain restaurants and big-box store shopping complexes leading to cookie cutter planned communities.
- foobiekr 6y ago
  I'm very curious where this is.
driverdan 6y ago
> I really enjoy living in a city with somewhat sane zoning Which city is that? I'm not aware of any US cities with sane zoning. To me that means no minimum square footage, minimal set back rules, no garage restrictions, no height restrictions, no restrictions on multi-units and ADUs, and limited or no restrictions on mixed use.
epistasis 6y ago
Wow, so nice to see "sane zoning" mean mixed use and allowing for density and lots of life. I completely agree with you, and have difficulty finding the type of city that fits. A move abroad seems likely in the next 10 years.
- omosubi 6y ago
  What cities interest you?
wonder_er 6y ago
Le Corbusier! I love encountering people that know who he is, and why he's so important. Do you know Robert Moses? I feel like those two people have pretty much ruined America, and almost no one has heard of them. I just purchased a house in Golden, CO, where I have all of the things you're talking about - walkable, coffee shops, restaurants, grocery stores in tolerably close distance. I'm trying to get Golden to legalize a style of building that would make all of these good things more plentiful and more affordable. I am writing about two competing "visions" for a block of what is currently a surface parking lot in downtown Golden. One option is not pleasant, the other option is delightful, and illegal. I bet it'll all be right up your alley: https://josh.works/#what-this-newsletter-is-about https://josh.works/#what-this-newsletter-is-about
- SirensOfTitan 6y ago
  Funny, I just started reading Cato's "The Power Broker" a couple weeks ago. Before that point, I had absolutely no idea who Robert Moses was. I picked that book at random, but as "happy little accidents" go, it melded with my current exploration of themes related to urban planning marvelously. I particularly love reading Jane Jacobs's thoughts on the subject, who learned by observation, not through logical analysis. A lot of my interest in this area comes from a life-long appreciation of (non-pejorative) anarchist philosophical thought. It's a lot harder to build organization from the bottom-up, but top-down organization loses so much implicit knowledge and context that it seems reasonable to investigate the former approach. I'll check out your newsletter, it seems so interesting, thank you for linking. :)
  - wonder_er 6y ago
    That book is one of the best books I have ever read. criminally undervalued for people trying to understand why the world is the way that it is. I talk extensively about Robert Moses in my newsletter, but as you might imagine it's hard to summarize a 1400 page book in a handful of emails, so I haven't quite figured out exactly how well the looping Robert Moses's story into the greater narrative I'm trying to convey. I would love your thoughts on the newsletter as you read through it! I just started rereading Jane jacobs's "the death and life of great American cities" I'm sure at some point I'll be looping it into the newsletter as well. I'm with you on the non pejorative anarchist philosophical thought. Not necessarily anything to do with anarchy, but more about the value generation of spontaneous, self-organized, responsive, iterative, goal-seeking behavior at an individual level. Have you heard of "The problem of political authority: the right course and the duty to obey" or "seeing like a state: why schemes to improve the human condition fail" as if you're reading list isn't already long enough, these might be worthwhile additions.
Cryptid 6y ago
>The Le Corbusier spirit of zoning It's not Le Corbusier. Zoning in the USA started in the late 1800s, an effort to regulate light and air in cities, and turned by the early 1900s into an effort to keep certain industries and ethnicities out of "good" neighborhoods. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/6/28/a-history-of-zoning-in-three-acts-part-i https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/6/28/a-history-of-z... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-06-19/the-birth-of-zoning-codes-a-history https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-06-19/the-birth... https://fee.org/articles/the-racist-history-of-zoning-laws/ https://fee.org/articles/the-racist-history-of-zoning-laws/ https://www.kqed.org/news/11840548/the-racist-history-of-single-family-home-zoning https://www.kqed.org/news/11840548/the-racist-history-of-sin... https://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2016/02/american-zoning-as-expression-of.html https://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2016/02/american-zoning-as-...
- epistasis 6y ago
  As your links point out, much as it was about "light and air" it was also about keeping out poor people and undesired races. The first zoning laws in SF were used to selectively drive out Chinese people. Just want to make sure that this often hidden part of zoning is above the fold. It's also largely why racial segregation and housing wealth has not changed at all over the past 50 years. The laws are used to prevent integrations if communities, ensure that infrastructure like schools are unevenly distributed, and enforce our current racial divisions.
  - Cryptid 6y ago
    you read the links, thank you!

stronglikedan 6y ago

I live in a suburb where I can walk most places, utilize public transit, have access to stores and coffee shops without a drive, and live close to friends and work (4 mi). They do exist! (Although, they are admittedly few and far between.)

MH15 6y ago
Suburbs with public transit! Now that's something
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  I mean, it's a five minute walk to the bus stop, but it's also just a 15 minute walk to every type of store/gym/restaurant I need. So, while I personally don't use the public transport, it's there if I ever need it.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  The American suburb was invented by streetcars.
opportune 6y ago
I’ve noticed there are a lot of these kinds of suburbs by some large cities in the West. For example: most of the towns in the SF peninsula, Bellevue/Renton, many suburbs of LA and parts of OC. Whereas when many people think of suburbs in the rest of the country, it’s like one or two large highway exits surrounded by chain restaurants and big-box store shopping complexes leading to cookie cutter planned communities.
foobiekr 6y ago
I'm very curious where this is.

driverdan 6y ago

> I really enjoy living in a city with somewhat sane zoning Which city is that? I'm not aware of any US cities with sane zoning. To me that means no minimum square footage, minimal set back rules, no garage restrictions, no height restrictions, no restrictions on multi-units and ADUs, and limited or no restrictions on mixed use.

epistasis 6y ago

Wow, so nice to see "sane zoning" mean mixed use and allowing for density and lots of life. I completely agree with you, and have difficulty finding the type of city that fits. A move abroad seems likely in the next 10 years.

omosubi 6y ago
What cities interest you?

wonder_er 6y ago

Le Corbusier! I love encountering people that know who he is, and why he's so important. Do you know Robert Moses? I feel like those two people have pretty much ruined America, and almost no one has heard of them. I just purchased a house in Golden, CO, where I have all of the things you're talking about - walkable, coffee shops, restaurants, grocery stores in tolerably close distance. I'm trying to get Golden to legalize a style of building that would make all of these good things more plentiful and more affordable. I am writing about two competing "visions" for a block of what is currently a surface parking lot in downtown Golden. One option is not pleasant, the other option is delightful, and illegal. I bet it'll all be right up your alley: https://josh.works/#what-this-newsletter-is-about https://josh.works/#what-this-newsletter-is-about

SirensOfTitan 6y ago
Funny, I just started reading Cato's "The Power Broker" a couple weeks ago. Before that point, I had absolutely no idea who Robert Moses was. I picked that book at random, but as "happy little accidents" go, it melded with my current exploration of themes related to urban planning marvelously. I particularly love reading Jane Jacobs's thoughts on the subject, who learned by observation, not through logical analysis. A lot of my interest in this area comes from a life-long appreciation of (non-pejorative) anarchist philosophical thought. It's a lot harder to build organization from the bottom-up, but top-down organization loses so much implicit knowledge and context that it seems reasonable to investigate the former approach. I'll check out your newsletter, it seems so interesting, thank you for linking. :)
- wonder_er 6y ago
  That book is one of the best books I have ever read. criminally undervalued for people trying to understand why the world is the way that it is. I talk extensively about Robert Moses in my newsletter, but as you might imagine it's hard to summarize a 1400 page book in a handful of emails, so I haven't quite figured out exactly how well the looping Robert Moses's story into the greater narrative I'm trying to convey. I would love your thoughts on the newsletter as you read through it! I just started rereading Jane jacobs's "the death and life of great American cities" I'm sure at some point I'll be looping it into the newsletter as well. I'm with you on the non pejorative anarchist philosophical thought. Not necessarily anything to do with anarchy, but more about the value generation of spontaneous, self-organized, responsive, iterative, goal-seeking behavior at an individual level. Have you heard of "The problem of political authority: the right course and the duty to obey" or "seeing like a state: why schemes to improve the human condition fail" as if you're reading list isn't already long enough, these might be worthwhile additions.

Cryptid 6y ago

>The Le Corbusier spirit of zoning It's not Le Corbusier. Zoning in the USA started in the late 1800s, an effort to regulate light and air in cities, and turned by the early 1900s into an effort to keep certain industries and ethnicities out of "good" neighborhoods. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/6/28/a-history-of-zoning-in-three-acts-part-i https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/6/28/a-history-of-z... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-06-19/the-birth-of-zoning-codes-a-history https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-06-19/the-birth... https://fee.org/articles/the-racist-history-of-zoning-laws/ https://fee.org/articles/the-racist-history-of-zoning-laws/ https://www.kqed.org/news/11840548/the-racist-history-of-single-family-home-zoning https://www.kqed.org/news/11840548/the-racist-history-of-sin... https://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2016/02/american-zoning-as-expression-of.html https://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2016/02/american-zoning-as-...

epistasis 6y ago
As your links point out, much as it was about "light and air" it was also about keeping out poor people and undesired races. The first zoning laws in SF were used to selectively drive out Chinese people. Just want to make sure that this often hidden part of zoning is above the fold. It's also largely why racial segregation and housing wealth has not changed at all over the past 50 years. The laws are used to prevent integrations if communities, ensure that infrastructure like schools are unevenly distributed, and enforce our current racial divisions.
- Cryptid 6y ago
  you read the links, thank you!