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Hey, I live in Golden! What's being done in Denver/Boulder is happening in Golden. It's not SV money ruining these cities - it's local restrictive zoning laws

Hey, I live in Golden! What's being done in Denver/Boulder is happening in Golden. It's not SV money ruining these cities - it's local restrictive zoning laws that limit the construction of new property, while driving up the price of new construction and existing construction. Denver, Boulder, and Golden ALL have implemented severe growth caps: From Attempt to emulate Boulder 1% growth limit across Front Range stirs controversy (Denver Post) [0]: > Since Boulder in 1976 instituted a 2% limit on dwelling unit increases in city limits, the idea has proliferated. The city revised it down to 1% in 1995, the same year Hayes said he pushed a growth limit of the same rate into effect in Golden. This summer, Lakewood voters approved an almost identical municipal law local officials are in the process of implementing. SV money isn't ruining cities. Their own city councils and legislators are catastrophically mis-managing their cities. There is plenty of space for everyone who wants to live somewhere, if you let price signals coordinate a desire for various locations with an ability to pay to consume more or less land area. I'm starting to build momentum for a fix in Golden, CO, but it sure feels like a long slog. [0]: https://www.denverpost.com/2019/11/16/boulder-1-percent-growth-limit-front-range-controversy/ https://www.denverpost.com/2019/11/16/boulder-1-percent-grow...

Joker_vD 6y ago
Wait, do I read it right? The US cities legally limit the amount of houses that can be built in a year? Like, "this year, the total amount of construction must be no more than 2000 houses"? Seriously?
- paulsutter 6y ago
  It's worse than that. US towns can have a patchwork of complex zoning rules where the answer to almost any development is "no", and when you do make it past the planning department, the neighbors are often able to block it. So there's no quota, instead you are trapped in months or years of uncertain red tape. San Francisco is perhaps the worst, but these problems are widespread.
  - gtfoutttt 6y ago
    And all of those convoluted rules are why CA is forcing ADU's. It's the legislature basically telling towns to get it together or zoning goes bye bye.
  - kelp 6y ago
    And San Francisco also legally limits the square footage of office space that can be built. Prop M passed in 1986 by the voters. Thank Sue Hestor for this.
    - 0xffff2 6y ago
      Is that a bad thing? If you're going to restrict residential construction, surely restricting office construction to match is a good thing?
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Only the rich ones. You wanna build stuff in Buffalo or Detroit and they'll happily take your money in exchange for permits. (well, maybe not Detroit depending on what you want to build, they had a problem with too much housing not long ago but you get my point).
- wonder_er 6y ago
  You do indeed read it almost exactly right. I would propose slight modifications, though. Maybe re-word it into: > City councils legally prohibit landowners from adding dwelling units to their own property. Remember - all this "pent up" demand for housing is a result of homeowners being denied permission to modify their own property. Historically, all cities evolved from fields because landowners incrementally upgraded their own property, when the price of rents justified additional improvements. In the 1920s, city councils gave themselves permission to prevent property modifications "for planning purposes", and the US Supreme Court never struck it down. The early goals of zoning were explicitly laid out by the mayor of Atlanta in 1922[0], with gems like: Zoning will keep the apartments out of the private house sections. The coming of the apartment drives out the private home. And: The residence districts are further subdivided into three race districts: R1 or white residence district. R2 or colored residence district. R3 or undetermined race district. The above race zoning is essential in the in interest of the public peace, order and security and will promote the welfare and prosperity of both the white and colored race. Care has been taken to prevent discrimination and to provide adequate space for the expansion of the housing areas of each race without encroaching on the areas now occupied by the other. Nearly every US city still has R1, R2, and R3 zoning, though of course no one includes the racial element anymore. I gave a high-level overview/rant on zoning, racism, and Denver here: https://twitter.com/josh_works/status/1294726871574179840 https://twitter.com/josh_works/status/1294726871574179840 [0]: https://josh.works/full-copy-of-1922-atlanta-zone-plan https://josh.works/full-copy-of-1922-atlanta-zone-plan
stevenhubertron 6y ago
I live and own a home in Denver but have been trying to move to Golden for 2 years now to have more room for my family and access to green space. I have bid on more than a dozen houses all over asking, 50%, waiving all kinds of inspection fixes and I have lost every time to all cash offers from out of state. While my experience may not be indicative of the market as a whole it certainly speaks to some sort of migration happening and "Golden" being on the list of these out of state people.
- wonder_er 6y ago
  Hey! I just squeaked through a home purchase in Golden. Felt totally lucky. My next order of business is to help other non-out-of-state-developers start moving to Golden. Along the way I want to make golden become a more affordable place to live, and also an even more desirable place to live. (I know - it's a tall order.) I've been connecting with folks who live (or want to live) in the area. Feel free to send me a message (email, twitter, whatever) and I'll try to help you in this goal! I'd much rather you move in than some rich out-of-state-er who's working on their second vacation home.

Joker_vD 6y ago

Wait, do I read it right? The US cities legally limit the amount of houses that can be built in a year? Like, "this year, the total amount of construction must be no more than 2000 houses"? Seriously?

paulsutter 6y ago
It's worse than that. US towns can have a patchwork of complex zoning rules where the answer to almost any development is "no", and when you do make it past the planning department, the neighbors are often able to block it. So there's no quota, instead you are trapped in months or years of uncertain red tape. San Francisco is perhaps the worst, but these problems are widespread.
- gtfoutttt 6y ago
  And all of those convoluted rules are why CA is forcing ADU's. It's the legislature basically telling towns to get it together or zoning goes bye bye.
- kelp 6y ago
  And San Francisco also legally limits the square footage of office space that can be built. Prop M passed in 1986 by the voters. Thank Sue Hestor for this.
  - 0xffff2 6y ago
    Is that a bad thing? If you're going to restrict residential construction, surely restricting office construction to match is a good thing?
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Only the rich ones. You wanna build stuff in Buffalo or Detroit and they'll happily take your money in exchange for permits. (well, maybe not Detroit depending on what you want to build, they had a problem with too much housing not long ago but you get my point).
wonder_er 6y ago
You do indeed read it almost exactly right. I would propose slight modifications, though. Maybe re-word it into: > City councils legally prohibit landowners from adding dwelling units to their own property. Remember - all this "pent up" demand for housing is a result of homeowners being denied permission to modify their own property. Historically, all cities evolved from fields because landowners incrementally upgraded their own property, when the price of rents justified additional improvements. In the 1920s, city councils gave themselves permission to prevent property modifications "for planning purposes", and the US Supreme Court never struck it down. The early goals of zoning were explicitly laid out by the mayor of Atlanta in 1922[0], with gems like: Zoning will keep the apartments out of the private house sections. The coming of the apartment drives out the private home. And: The residence districts are further subdivided into three race districts: R1 or white residence district. R2 or colored residence district. R3 or undetermined race district. The above race zoning is essential in the in interest of the public peace, order and security and will promote the welfare and prosperity of both the white and colored race. Care has been taken to prevent discrimination and to provide adequate space for the expansion of the housing areas of each race without encroaching on the areas now occupied by the other. Nearly every US city still has R1, R2, and R3 zoning, though of course no one includes the racial element anymore. I gave a high-level overview/rant on zoning, racism, and Denver here: https://twitter.com/josh_works/status/1294726871574179840 https://twitter.com/josh_works/status/1294726871574179840 [0]: https://josh.works/full-copy-of-1922-atlanta-zone-plan https://josh.works/full-copy-of-1922-atlanta-zone-plan

stevenhubertron 6y ago

I live and own a home in Denver but have been trying to move to Golden for 2 years now to have more room for my family and access to green space. I have bid on more than a dozen houses all over asking, 50%, waiving all kinds of inspection fixes and I have lost every time to all cash offers from out of state. While my experience may not be indicative of the market as a whole it certainly speaks to some sort of migration happening and "Golden" being on the list of these out of state people.

wonder_er 6y ago
Hey! I just squeaked through a home purchase in Golden. Felt totally lucky. My next order of business is to help other non-out-of-state-developers start moving to Golden. Along the way I want to make golden become a more affordable place to live, and also an even more desirable place to live. (I know - it's a tall order.) I've been connecting with folks who live (or want to live) in the area. Feel free to send me a message (email, twitter, whatever) and I'll try to help you in this goal! I'd much rather you move in than some rich out-of-state-er who's working on their second vacation home.